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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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^ I agree Lazza...injuries are not an excuse, but a reason. All the more reason why it is of paramount importance that we investigate the statistics that K presented, and do everything in our power to uncover if there is any reason for us to be at the very top of the table for matches lost due to injury since 2013, and to be a statistical outlier along with GC.
How? I am not sure. I am not paid millions of dollars to find out the reasons, if there are any. But there are others who are.
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bokka 
Joined: 11 Apr 1999
Location: NY, Ex Land of Brave and Free
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Another possible factor is overtraining, that many players are really pushing the limits that their body can tolerate to get that extra level of performance.
I remember back in the day doing carpoera training and the boss kept pushing me to go lower in the legs in the basic capoera exercise, it felt like it was too much but I just pushed through the pain to do it, but after a few weeks something went in my leg, a quad tendon or something and I had to stop and had a long term injury for at least 2 years. The only thing I got out of that was that I was capable of pushing through pain that was beyond a safe level, not much of a consolation prize. Notice it tends to be our highest performing players (eg Degoey, Moore) or mediocre players who have improved a lot through hard work (eg Langdon, Sier), who get these chronic soft tissue exercises. |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| bokka wrote: | Another possible factor is overtraining, that many players are really pushing the limits that their body can tolerate to get that extra level of performance.
I remember back in the day doing carpoera training and the boss kept pushing me to go lower in the legs in the basic capoera exercise, it felt like it was too much but I just pushed through the pain to do it, but after a few weeks something went in my leg, a quad tendon or something and I had to stop and had a long term injury for at least 2 years. The only thing I got out of that was that I was capable of pushing through pain that was beyond a safe level, not much of a consolation prize. Notice it tends to be our highest performing players (eg Degoey, Moore) or mediocre players who have improved a lot through hard work (eg Langdon, Sier), who get these chronic soft tissue exercises. |
Absolutely Bokka. Agree totally. I posted the text of an article recently from the HS in which Tyson Goldsack described some aspects of our rehabilitation program. It involved massive training loads. Here it is again for those interested:
At Collingwood, we call it “Super Saturday”, but it’s nowhere near as exciting as it sounds.
In fact, it’s the closest thing to hell for Collingwood players on the road to recovery
and for Jaidyn Stephenson it has been his start to the weekend for nine out of the past 10 Saturdays before this weekend.
Let’s paint the picture for what these gruelling sessions mean.
They are scheduled for the players who are just about ready to resume playing football. The session pushes them to extremes to have them cherry ripe for their comebacks.
Usually, the guys getting out of the rehab group do it for two weeks. A few unlucky ones have had to do it for three weeks.
But in light of Stevo’s unusual 10-game ban, he was forced to sweat it out for three times the normal amount of Super Saturdays than most of us have had to do.
Players engaged on Saturday have to do a minimum of 10km running to help simulate the game loads.
It’s normally in excess of 10km — measured with your GPS strapped to your back or through your watch — and includes footy-type drills, repeat loads, fartlek running, game simulation and retrievals.
Banned forward Jaidyn Stephenson completed nine tortuous “Super Saturday” sessions to prepare him for his return for finals.
Retrievals are precisely as they sound. You have someone kick a ball out at an angle and your task is to run and get it back to him as fast as you can — over and over and over again.
etc. etc
Now i have absolutely no expertise whatsoever to comment on the rehabilitation program outlined here by Tyson Goldsack, so I will not. But the club needs to get the highest quality sports scientists in over the summer to assess our rehabilitation programs and our training loads. because, while statistics cannot prove causality, they can shed light on what needs to be investigated.
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | ^ I agree Lazza...injuries are not an excuse, but a reason. All the more reason why it is of paramount importance that we investigate the statistics that K presented, and do everything in our power to uncover if there is any reason for us to be at the very top of the table for matches lost due to injury since 2013, and to be a statistical outlier along with GC.
How? I am not sure. I am not paid millions of dollars to find out the reasons, if there are any. But there are others who are. |
Fair point. I too get frustrated by these constant injuries. However I have never got this stuff about blaming fitness staff for football injuries on the field. My logical brain goes nuts. Injuries, like shit, happens. The logical solution is to play soft football and that will not happen.
My game was cricket and loved short pitched fast bowling because I could hook and pull very well. However occasionally I would cop a real nasty dart that hit me on the shoulder, helmet or back of the neck. That bloody hurt  But I always blamed myself for missing a ball, not the bowler who was doing his job, nor the coach.
So the action during football cause most of the injuries, that is the game.
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| bokka wrote: | Another possible factor is overtraining, that many players are really pushing the limits that their body can tolerate to get that extra level of performance.
I remember back in the day doing carpoera training and the boss kept pushing me to go lower in the legs in the basic capoera exercise, it felt like it was too much but I just pushed through the pain to do it, but after a few weeks something went in my leg, a quad tendon or something and I had to stop and had a long term injury for at least 2 years. The only thing I got out of that was that I was capable of pushing through pain that was beyond a safe level, not much of a consolation prize. Notice it tends to be our highest performing players (eg Degoey, Moore) or mediocre players who have improved a lot through hard work (eg Langdon, Sier), who get these chronic soft tissue exercises. |
So if one over-exercises doing advanced Capybara you have to have a knee reconstruction? 
Tell me again how sheep's bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes? 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Magpietothemax wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
Another troll. Are you and Adz the same poster? This was not a grand final genius. Pathetic & histrionic nonsense. Learn to grow a pair.
Scarred FFS 🙄 More like scared. |
It is impossible to learn to grow a pair. This is a biological imperative, and would have to be encoded in the DNA. It is not a cogniitive task. |
Thank you Bernard 😉 |
Bernard who? Surely not Bernard Tomic?? (That is the only Bernard I can think of, and to be compared with him would truly be an insult)
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Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Injuries did not cost us the game on Saturday. Poor performances from Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Sidey, Mihocek, Mayne, Brown, WHE, Aish, Noble, Reid, as well as poor tap work from Grundy cost us the game. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I can't believe that a Collingwood supporter could blame Grundy. He just played one of the most dominant games ever by a player in a black and white jumper. If he hadn't been on the ground, we'd have lost by 147 points the way the rest of the team played and the coaching panel coached. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I can't believe that a Collingwood supporter could blame Grundy. He just played one of the most dominant games ever by a player in a black and white jumper. If he hadn't been on the ground, we'd have lost by 147 points the way the rest of the team played and the coaching panel coached. |
Agree. His last quarter was leviathan like and was the only reason we got so close. Back to back Copeland's beckon and a perhaps even a Brownlow!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Magpietothemax wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
Another troll. Are you and Adz the same poster? This was not a grand final genius. Pathetic & histrionic nonsense. Learn to grow a pair.
Scarred FFS 🙄 More like scared. |
It is impossible to learn to grow a pair. This is a biological imperative, and would have to be encoded in the DNA. It is not a cogniitive task. |
Thank you Bernard 😉 |
Bernard who? Surely not Bernard Tomic?? (That is the only Bernard I can think of, and to be compared with him would truly be an insult) |
Sir Bernard Woolley from “ Yes Minister”:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Woolley
The first sentence under the heading Character: “ Woolley is always quick to point out the physical impossibilities of Sir Humphrey’s or Hackers mixed metaphors, with almost excessive pedantry”...
😉
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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bokka
Joined: 11 Apr 1999
Location: NY, Ex Land of Brave and Free
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| watt price tully wrote: | | bokka wrote: | Another possible factor is overtraining, that many players are really pushing the limits that their body can tolerate to get that extra level of performance.
I remember back in the day doing carpoera training and the boss kept pushing me to go lower in the legs in the basic capoera exercise, it felt like it was too much but I just pushed through the pain to do it, but after a few weeks something went in my leg, a quad tendon or something and I had to stop and had a long term injury for at least 2 years. The only thing I got out of that was that I was capable of pushing through pain that was beyond a safe level, not much of a consolation prize. Notice it tends to be our highest performing players (eg Degoey, Moore) or mediocre players who have improved a lot through hard work (eg Langdon, Sier), who get these chronic soft tissue exercises. |
So if one over-exercises doing advanced Capybara you have to have a knee reconstruction?
Tell me again how sheep's bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes? |
Sorry no idea what you are trying to say here. ARe you tripping or something? (Hopefully coming down by now...don't wanna end up like syd Barret do we?) |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I think the point wpt is making is that Langdon has a knee injury. Unless there’s an even more serious problem than we know about, his knee is probably not “soft tissue”. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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How do our injuries lists stack up against othe4 teams this year? To me it seems far less soft tissue, but a few more serious long term injuries. A fewhamstrings but thats the norm.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| When an all-time great, like Rance or Greenwood, goes down with an ACL, it is impossible to win a flag. |
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bokka
Joined: 11 Apr 1999
Location: NY, Ex Land of Brave and Free
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | bokka wrote: | Another possible factor is overtraining, that many players are really pushing the limits that their body can tolerate to get that extra level of performance.
I remember back in the day doing carpoera training and the boss kept pushing me to go lower in the legs in the basic capoera exercise, it felt like it was too much but I just pushed through the pain to do it, but after a few weeks something went in my leg, a quad tendon or something and I had to stop and had a long term injury for at least 2 years. The only thing I got out of that was that I was capable of pushing through pain that was beyond a safe level, not much of a consolation prize. Notice it tends to be our highest performing players (eg Degoey, Moore) or mediocre players who have improved a lot through hard work (eg Langdon, Sier), who get these chronic soft tissue exercises. |
Absolutely Bokka. Agree totally. I posted the text of an article recently from the HS in which Tyson Goldsack described some aspects of our rehabilitation program. It involved massive training loads. Here it is again for those interested:
At Collingwood, we call it “Super Saturday”, but it’s nowhere near as exciting as it sounds.
In fact, it’s the closest thing to hell for Collingwood players on the road to recovery
and for Jaidyn Stephenson it has been his start to the weekend for nine out of the past 10 Saturdays before this weekend.
Let’s paint the picture for what these gruelling sessions mean.
They are scheduled for the players who are just about ready to resume playing football. The session pushes them to extremes to have them cherry ripe for their comebacks.
Usually, the guys getting out of the rehab group do it for two weeks. A few unlucky ones have had to do it for three weeks.
But in light of Stevo’s unusual 10-game ban, he was forced to sweat it out for three times the normal amount of Super Saturdays than most of us have had to do.
Players engaged on Saturday have to do a minimum of 10km running to help simulate the game loads.
It’s normally in excess of 10km — measured with your GPS strapped to your back or through your watch — and includes footy-type drills, repeat loads, fartlek running, game simulation and retrievals.
Banned forward Jaidyn Stephenson completed nine tortuous “Super Saturday” sessions to prepare him for his return for finals.
Retrievals are precisely as they sound. You have someone kick a ball out at an angle and your task is to run and get it back to him as fast as you can — over and over and over again.
etc. etc
Now i have absolutely no expertise whatsoever to comment on the rehabilitation program outlined here by Tyson Goldsack, so I will not. But the club needs to get the highest quality sports scientists in over the summer to assess our rehabilitation programs and our training loads. because, while statistics cannot prove causality, they can shed light on what needs to be investigated. |
I was more referring to normal training where players could perhaps push themselves too hard for their body to handle. Whether they are also sometimes pushed too hard in rehab causing reinjury, I have no idea. |
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