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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:58 pm
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I think it is very important to keep up the pretence that uninformed people who have nothing to contribute to a debate should be allowed to derail it.

Sadly, The Conversation disagrees:

https://theconversation.com/theres-a-good-reason-were-moderating-climate-change-deniers-uninformed-comments-undermine-expertise-123857

"Imagine you discovered you had a serious illness and went to a doctor who recommended an operation. Then you surveyed 10 of your friends about whether they thought you needed an operation. Then, rather than have the operation, you spend the next 10 years, in deteriorating health, every day hearing from your doctor the operation is needed, while a small subset of your mates comment on how the doctor is a nutjob.

When we do this to experts of any sort, these uninformed comments undermine their authority. People are less inclined to believe experts when their views are presented alongside hostile opinions. But the two things are not the same; they are entirely different types of information and they don’t deserve equal weight.

The right approach, if you don’t believe your doctor, is to seek a second opinion from another medical expert. And maybe a third or a fourth. And then you make a decision on how to act, based on the evidence.

In the case of climate science we don’t just have two or three expert opinions, we have thousands. All rigorous and peer reviewed. We also have a range of vested interests who are attempting to discredit that science, following the playbook of big tobacco to profit from casting doubt and delaying action. And we have the passionate citizens who feel their grasp of the science entitles them to a platform, not once but on a daily basis.

In my view it is journalistically irresponsible to present settled science alongside comments that undermine and distort it and mislead our readers. That is why we are going to be more careful to police the small and vocal group of climate science contrarians whose passion overwhelms their ability to assess the evidence."
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:18 pm
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While I definitely believe we have a climate change problem, I’ve seen It at the glaciers, thing is all the suggestions to help the situation are good for the environment in general, we have to stop treating the world like a tip!
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:54 pm
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This Greta kid speaking at the UN, poor deluded child.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/how-dare-you-greta-thunberg-delivers-scathing-speech-at-un-climate-summit-20190924-p52u7x.html

Apparently there are kids who are so anxious about this issue it's causing health issues. Whoever is feeding this pap they're regurgitating has a lot to answer for.

No one is dying, sea level rises are measured in millimetres not metres, we're not in the middle of mass extinction. If nothing changes, sea levels may rise worst case by 30cm in 100 years and some changes made to what crops grow where. Needless hysteria.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:22 pm
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^It looks like a classic incentive differential to me. Older people with assets are more likely to view strong action as a cost which will not see returns in their lifetimes. For young people, taking out the insurance required is eminently sensible.

We would expect this differential to be exacerbated when the assets concerned are weighted towards fossil fuel revenues (including downstream asset valuation such as housing). Australia is a bellicose voice on this for various reasons including a tradition of macho anti-intellectual posturing, but the incentives are clear enough.

Even those without assets may see the immediate expense as a personal loss, particularly if they're inclined to see the economy as a closed zero-sum game.

Meanwhile, the same sceptical voices will clamour for all manner of other insurance products even as they don't think to question the many scientific consensuses on which their lives depend.

You don't need to buy into the strongest arguments to see this.

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:32 pm
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Quote:
She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!

You gotta admit, he is the king of trolling. Very Happy
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:38 pm
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Quote:
This Greta kid speaking at the UN, poor deluded child.

Magnificent speech. The pathos. The tears. The anger. The big words she doesn't understand.
Dad must've had her practicing it for hours.
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:56 pm
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The girl is obviously autistic.

Kelly's (she works (over 20 years) with autistic kids) words, not mine.

https://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/Article?contentid=1494&language=English

Children with ASD may talk constantly about specific things that interest them and be unaware that other people might not have the same level of interest.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:17 pm
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Such snide dismissal of a young woman (she's 16, by the way, not a baby) who speaks about a matter of importance with urgency and moral clarity. So easy to put her down because of her age, gender or condition (yes, she has autism; no, that doesn't disqualify her from being able to perceive or articulate political concerns – far more likely, it's a key reason why she is so precocious, so good at public speaking and able to do what she's doing). And all from keyboard warriors who are doing – let me guess – absolutely nothing to respond to scientists' warnings about the dangers of climate change. Hope your smug nihilism keeps you warm at night.
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Jezza Taurus

2023 PREMIERS!


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:21 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Quote:
She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!

You gotta admit, he is the king of trolling. Very Happy

He will always be the king of trolling Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:11 am
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David wrote:
Such snide dismissal of a young woman (she's 16, by the way, not a baby) who speaks about a matter of importance with urgency and moral clarity. So easy to put her down because of her age, gender or condition (yes, she has autism; no, that doesn't disqualify her from being able to perceive or articulate political concerns – far more likely, it's a key reason why she is so precocious, so good at public speaking and able to do what she's doing). And all from keyboard warriors who are doing – let me guess – absolutely nothing to respond to scientists' warnings about the dangers of climate change. Hope your smug nihilism keeps you warm at night.


David I've been a poster on this site longer than most and that is the most spot on thing you or quite frankly anyone else has ever said!!!
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:24 am
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David wrote:
Such snide dismissal of a young woman (she's 16, by the way, not a baby) who speaks about a matter of importance with urgency and moral clarity. So easy to put her down because of her age, gender or condition (yes, she has autism; no, that doesn't disqualify her from being able to perceive or articulate political concerns – far more likely, it's a key reason why she is so precocious, so good at public speaking and able to do what she's doing). And all from keyboard warriors who are doing – let me guess – absolutely nothing to respond to scientists' warnings about the dangers of climate change. Hope your smug nihilism keeps you warm at night.


Correct weight & well said. All the old and young old farts: you’d feel sorry for their children.

Well written David. You should think of a career in writing 😉

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:27 am
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pietillidie wrote:
^It looks like a classic incentive differential to me. Older people with assets are more likely to view strong action as a cost which will not see returns in their lifetimes. For young people, taking out the insurance required is eminently sensible.

We would expect this differential to be exacerbated when the assets concerned are weighted towards fossil fuel revenues (including downstream asset valuation such as housing). Australia is a bellicose voice on this for various reasons including a tradition of macho anti-intellectual posturing, but the incentives are clear enough.

Even those without assets may see the immediate expense as a personal loss, particularly if they're inclined to see the economy as a closed zero-sum game.

Meanwhile, the same sceptical voices will clamour for all manner of other insurance products even as they don't think to question the many scientific consensuses on which their lives depend.

You don't need to buy into the strongest arguments to see this.


Well argued old son. Right on so many fronts

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:37 am
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Quote:
Such snide dismissal of a young woman...

Just pointing out that her father is an actor and that her speech seemed something of a "performance" piece.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:09 am
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If you decide to jump into the ring, don't be surprised when you get punched. She's a propaganda tool, a puppet and is obviously being used and abused by parents and the political left. Using her age and disability to try and craft some shield against criticism is transparent and pathetic.

As for the media and the left (a tautology if ever there was one) going after children, think back to the Covington Boys, wrongly accused of racism and Kyle Kushuv, a 2nd ammendent advocate survivor of a mass shooting. Don't feign outrage now because the target is a small blonde girl with pigtails.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:27 am
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But I’m not saying that she should be given special treatment because of her age, etc., and I’m not aware of anyone else who is. I’m saying that much of the criticism directed at her is explicitly putting her down because of those characteristics (including the two posts immediately above my previous one).

Also, the suggestions that other people may be writing or helping her with her speeches (which may or may not true – from what I’ve seen, she’s very good at speaking off the cuff) are pretty strange when you consider that the same is true for pretty much every political leader in the world (even, from time to time, our boy Donald – when he wants to say anything coherent). So it seems to me that there’s a lot of focus on discrediting the messenger rather than actually engaging with her arguments.

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Last edited by David on Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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