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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Roughly, I think Obama's foreign policy outcomes were very poor, and he is lucky that this legacy is overshadowed by the utter unprecedented chaos he inherited at home and abroad. Bush's years were extraordinarily horrific and accompanied by carnage, cronyism, corruption and the loss of American prestige. So yes, I do think Obama gets off lightly on foreign policy, mostly thanks to George W. and friends.
But here's the problem: Trump is surrounded by much the same George W. Republican wreckers and has no knowledge or power base of his own from which to counter them even if he had serious policy concepts, which he doesn't. The best he can do is manipulate events after the fact on Twitter. It's pathetic watching him run from tweet to photo op trying give the impression that he's anything but a mangy cornered dog playing media boy for the usual Republican extremists, robber barons and chancers. But we all knew Trump was diseased long before this, so it's hardly a surprise.
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I'd be disappointed if I'd ever thought there was any realistic prospect of us not doing so. Let's just hope that this doesn't bring the region closer to conflict.
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Total idiots. You reckon if Iran assassinated a leading US general in another country there wouldn’t be retribution? An extraordinarily reckless act from the Trump administration and one that’s going to require some urgent de-escalation if we’re to avoid all-out war.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Does he want to avoid a war, though? Generally speaking, wars have been good for mobilising the right-wing nutter vote. This looks like a domestic political decision to me. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Now you mention it, it is an election year. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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This is a game changer mark someone else's words. Forget about the right or wrongs for a minute - this is huge and Israel will pay a big price for the Military man's killing.
In Iran, they will now change the curses of "death to America" and "death to Israel" from 3 times to 5 times a day.
Time for Randy Newman...(written in ? 1972 & still so apt)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_LDeUEiWY
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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More US attacks on Iranian backed Shia postions in Iraq:
"...According to pro-Hezbollah media source Al-Manar, the strikes targeted a convoy of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Forces umbrella grouping of Iran-backed Shia militias.
According to pro-Hezbollah Lebanese media site Al-Manar, the strikes targeted a convoy of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Forces an umbrella group of Iran-backed Shia militias.
Six people were killed in the strikes, three were critically wounded, an Iraqi army source said.
Two of the three vehicles making up a militia convoy were found burned, the source said, as well as six burned corpses. The strikes took place at 1:12 am local time..."
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-airstrike-north-of-Baghdad-six-Shia-militia-men-killed-613049
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | More US attacks on Iranian backed Shia postions in Iraq:
"...According to pro-Hezbollah media source Al-Manar, the strikes targeted a convoy of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Forces umbrella grouping of Iran-backed Shia militias.
According to pro-Hezbollah Lebanese media site Al-Manar, the strikes targeted a convoy of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Forces an umbrella group of Iran-backed Shia militias.
Six people were killed in the strikes, three were critically wounded, an Iraqi army source said.
Two of the three vehicles making up a militia convoy were found burned, the source said, as well as six burned corpses. The strikes took place at 1:12 am local time..."
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-airstrike-north-of-Baghdad-six-Shia-militia-men-killed-613049 |
Now denied by the USA and Iran 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| ^ Seriously? There are any number of examples where that would be a warranted dig at the New York Times/MSNBC crowd. But this pointless and unlawful assassination is an objectively terrible decision by Trump that can’t have anything but negative repercussions. It’s already severely damaged US/Iraq relations, for one. And as for Iran, this is just another needless display of aggression from an administration that has already taken huge steps backward from the relative peace offered by the nuclear deal that Trump unilaterally sabotaged. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Obama unilaterally assassinated terrorists 2800 times. This guy was responsible for 100s of US deaths and the targeting of him in isolation was a justifiable and proportionate response. The guy was a shitbag who deserved to get droned.
All the 'nuclear deal' did was make the USA look weak and emboldened Iran to become a greater regional player mainly in Syria. They're still chanting Death to the USA, Death to Israel and arming themselves while financing, arming and assisting terrorists throughout the region.
Now is a wider conflict a good idea? Not likely going on the last 20 years of US misadventure in the region but the chance this goes beyond some tit for tat is pretty slim (unless Iran manages to do something really impressive like sink an aircraft carrier, then it's on). |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Have to say I’m a little surprised by your stance on this, Wokko. Firstly, there’s obviously a massive difference between assassinating a member of a terrorist organisation and a high-ranking official from a sovereign nation. Conflating those two is the mirror image of those who say that the US are terrorists – everyone’s fair game under that paradigm.
Killing Soleimani is obviously an act of war, the exact kind of thing that Trump promised not to do in office. You can’t just brush it off by saying he had it coming; if you don’t support the possible conflict that could eventuate as a result of this – and nobody with a shred of humanity should – then you have no reason to defend a calculated act that will inevitably have grave consequences.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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