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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:58 pm
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David wrote:
K wrote:
Quote:
Professor McCallum said the sports want certainty.

"They want your property," he said.

"They're buying you body and soul."

Chilling. But at least people are starting to recognise what's at stake here. Personally, I'm hoping that companies do try to write these codes of conduct "in stone", as the article suggests – it'll provide something concrete to fight against.

I'm still shocked that Kerevi was basically bullied by the mob into apologizing, before realizing that there's no need to apologize for saying "I love you Jesus" at any time, let alone on Easter.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 1:58 pm
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Folau turns to top silk as Rugby Australia case heads for legal stoush

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/folau-turns-to-top-silk-as-rugby-australia-case-heads-for-legal-stoush-20190521-p51psc.html

"Folau has tapped one of Australia's leading workplace relations lawyers and Melbourne silks, Stuart Wood QC, for advice...

The Melbourne-based barrister most recently successfully represented controversial marine scientist and climate-sceptic Peter Ridd in his battle against James Cook University, which terminated the academic for questioning his colleagues on-air and in emails.
...

If Folau takes the matter to the Supreme Court, he would challenge RA’s decision on contractual grounds.

However, if Folau decides to appeal his sacking on religious grounds with the Fair Work Commission, he has until June 10 to lodge a complaint for unlawful dismissal.

If a settlement is not agreed between Folau and RA, the matter can be taken to the Federal Court."
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 2:26 pm
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K wrote:
I'm still shocked that Kerevi was basically bullied by the mob into apologizing, before realizing that there's no need to apologize for saying "I love you Jesus" at any time, let alone on Easter.


Well, we don’t actually know that was the case – my interpretation is that he decided of his own accord to apologise because he’d internalised the notion that it was inappropriate.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:08 pm
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His clarification after the apology says: "Today, I felt things were taken out of context in regards to certain articles..." It refers to "my post-game interview after a rugby match in South Africa".

( https://www.instagram.com/samukerevi_/ )
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:18 pm
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David wrote:
K wrote:
Quote:
Professor McCallum said the sports want certainty.

"They want your property," he said.

"They're buying you body and soul."


Chilling. But at least people are starting to recognise what's at stake here. Personally, I'm hoping that companies do try to write these codes of conduct "in stone", as the article suggests – it'll provide something concrete to fight against.


Most medium and up organisations have a code of conduct, not as many have coherent social media policies. Policies by nature can't cover ever eventuality but they do need to cover what's not acceptable.

Here's an article containing some examples of what FWA looks at.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/people-human-resources/social-media-five-unfair-dismissal-cases-lessons/

I'm not sure you think what the fight is. The Folau case is an interesting one because it drags religious beliefs into it. If Folau had of quoted verbatim the relevant bible passage he would have had a far better defence in my opinion. By posting something that was seemingly his opinion, and an opinion that contradicts the progressive agenda, he left himself wide open.

Is the fight against separation of work and personal life or against the persecution of anyone who states an opinion that disagrees with the progressive agenda? I don't recall you being so charitable towards religious groups lobbying against same sex marriage.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:30 pm
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Well, I totally opposed the firing of that children’s party entertainer who expressed her opposition to same-sex marriage. But this isn’t just a “progressive” phenomenon – there have been several cases of people being fired for offending conservatives. For me, it’s about separation of work and personal life, freedom of speech and basic workers’ rights.
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:41 pm
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OK, and there's the nub.

If you tell some mates that your employer or boss is a cnut down the pub or cafe, that's not public. If you put it on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook etc with open privacy settings, you've published it in the public domain and will face consequences.

Considering that all the major parties withdrew nominations for candidates based on past social media comments, that genie aint going back in the bottle. People just need to learn.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:02 am
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Well put Stu, it ain’t brain surgery, and it wasn’t his first oopsie
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:47 am
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stui magpie wrote:
OK, and there's the nub.

If you tell some mates that your employer or boss is a cnut down the pub or cafe, that's not public. If you put it on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook etc with open privacy settings, you've published it in the public domain and will face consequences.

Considering that all the major parties withdrew nominations for candidates based on past social media comments, that genie aint going back in the bottle. People just need to learn.


Well, let’s see. My aim, and that of some others, is to put that genie back in the bottle. It’ll be a long fight at best, but not an impossible one. As it stands, Folau might yet win his unfair dismissal case, and that would set a valuable precedent.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:55 am
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David wrote:
... As it stands, Folau might yet win his unfair dismissal case, ...

Yes, there's no indication from legal talking heads that he is less than a 50-50 chance. They do indicate that not putting anything in his contract and just waffling about codes of conduct weaken RA's case.

The rugby journos, though, are showing they cannot stop their personal feelings about his actions from colouring their judgement when it comes to law.
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: preparing the Pilosocereus suppository

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:35 pm
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David wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
OK, and there's the nub.

If you tell some mates that your employer or boss is a cnut down the pub or cafe, that's not public. If you put it on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook etc with open privacy settings, you've published it in the public domain and will face consequences.

Considering that all the major parties withdrew nominations for candidates based on past social media comments, that genie aint going back in the bottle. People just need to learn.


Well, let’s see. My aim, and that of some others, is to put that genie back in the bottle. It’ll be a long fight at best, but not an impossible one. As it stands, Folau might yet win his unfair dismissal case, and that would set a valuable precedent.


That will depend on the reasons if he wins

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:45 pm
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D. Kane:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/does-rugby-australia-s-folau-firing-adhere-to-its-own-vision-20190524-p51qrf.html

"For the purpose of what I’ll say next, accept that both Folau and RA are "residents" of NSW; he was a RA employee; and that Folau’s Instagramming happened here too.
The Fair Work Act — itself a piece of Commonwealth, and not NSW legislation — applies to RA’s employment of Folau. Section 351(1) of the Act says an employer such as RA can’t take adverse action against an employee because of the person’s religion, EXCEPT WHERE the action is not unlawful under the anti-discrimination laws in force in the place where the action was taken.
Section 342 says that "adverse action" includes dismissing the employee.

Now every state and territory in Australia, except NSW and South Australia, has enacted some form of laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of religion, beliefs and the like. Although the federal government — because Australia has ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights - has the legislative power to prohibit discrimination on the basis of religion and religious beliefs, it hasn’t done so. If Folau had’ve been living in St Kilda and playing for the Melbourne Rebels, things may have been different.

So section 351 of the Act isn’t of any apparent use to Folau — the applicability of that provision is directly dependent on the existence of other laws, preventing religious discrimination in NSW. There are none. But, all isn’t lost ... another section of the Fair Work Act might well assist.

One of the stated objectives of Part 6-4, Division 2 of the Fair Work Act is to give effect to International Labour Organisation Conventions 111 and 158, which were adopted in 1958 and 1982 respectively, then and ratified by Australia in 1973 and 1993.

The ILO is an agency of the United Nations. Under these two instruments of international law, Australia agreed that it would enact laws eliminating religious and other discrimination in employment AND that it would legislate so that employment can’t be terminated on invalid grounds, including because of an employee’s religion.

According to the ILO, such religious discrimination includes discrimination based on a person’s expression of their religious beliefs.

Accordingly, section 772(1) of the Fair Work Act makes it unlawful (subject to some irrelevant exceptions) for an employer to terminate an employee’s employment because of, or for reasons including an employee’s religion. And if an employee’s religion includes a person’s expression of their religious beliefs — "believers" hardly worship in a vacuum — then was Folau terminated for reasons including his religion, or not?

If an employee’s employment is nonetheless terminated because of reasons including those which are statutorily unlawful under section 772(1), the employee has 21 days after the termination, to apply to the Fair Work Commission, asking it to deal with the matter.

Usually, the FWC deals with such matters by way of mediation or conciliation. Those methods of touchy-feely dispute resolution won’t cut the mustard though, in resolving the dispute to the satisfaction of either RA and Folau. So once the FWC agrees, the Act requires it to issue a certificate to that effect. Thereafter, Folau is free to take his unlawful termination case to the Federal Court of Australia.

Remember, we’re dealing with "unlawful" termination, not a guillotining which is merely unfair or harsh. Once unlawful termination is alleged, it’s up to RA to prove the termination wasn’t anything to do with any unlawful reason, or for reasons INCLUDING that unlawful reason.

And if RA can’t prove the termination had nothing at all to do with religion, then the Federal Court has the full jurisdiction to order that RA reinstate Folau; pay him full compensation; pay his (no doubt significant) legal bills; and pay a civil penalty of $50,000 or more.

It’s fair to say that an immense amount hinges on RA being able to absolutely delineate between it having terminated Folau’s employment because he breached RA’s applicable code of conduct by reason of expressing his religious beliefs; but NOT because of his religion, religious beliefs or the expression of those beliefs."
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K 



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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:55 pm
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I don't know if this is the best thread for this. Is alleged rape "personal behaviour"?

Top surgeon charged with rape after removing condom without permission

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/top-surgeon-charged-with-rape-after-removing-condom-without-permission-20190530-p51sxh.html

"When charges were laid, the surgeon had his practising licence suspended by the medical board but the ban was lifted after a battle in the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

He is now free to see patients and practise medicine despite the rape charges still hanging over his head and making their way through the courts."
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:39 pm
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I guess it's in the same realm. Seems like a fair decision, though some would argue that the lack of care he showed in the incident for which he was charged may not bode well for his treatment of patients. Personally, I prefer not having overgeneralised rules in such cases; the decision should be taken based on an even-handed assessment of whether the medical professional actually poses a genuine risk to their patients.
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:05 pm
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Quote:
It cost Israel Folau millions.

It made Nike billions.

Equality in sport isn't just about social conformity and being on the "right side of history" — in today's world it's also about big bucks.

How you handle everything from racial to sexual diversity can impact on your bottom line. Here's why.


Lemme guess, it's about pandering to those who give you money?

Quote:
Bluntly put, codes and clubs that endorse inclusivity and promote it openly can benefit from a huge boost to their bottom lines.

More and more, sporting codes and individual athletes rely on sponsorship to stay afloat.

Professional athletes have use-by dates and embracing a more inclusive "look" is now integral to maintaining these relationships.

Because it's completely feasible that brands will soon have the biggest influence in world sport.

If you risk getting major sponsors offside, you risk moral and financial bankruptcy.


Yep. You pay a guy $1Mil a year, you expect return on investment. People going to games (gate receipts) people watching on TV (broadcast rights) and people paying to be associated with you (sponsors) all bring in the revenue that allow you to pay that guy $1M per year.

Quote:
Often the sphere of public opinion sides with those who promote tolerance.

Look at sportswear giant Nike.

The American company added $6 billion to its bottom line when it released an ad starring controversial NFL player Colin Kaepernick.


His stance of taking a knee during the national anthem didn't go well for him, he's no longer playing NFL AFAIK but hopefully Nike gave him a sling for using him in that ad. Doubt they'll be approaching Izzy.

Quote:
But the Nike-Kaepernick case proves how beneficial sponsorship deals around diversity in sport can be. For the brand and the athlete.

In comparison, Folau has not only lost his $4 million Rugby Australia contract for saying homosexuals, among others, are destined for hell, but also lucrative ambassadorships with ASICS and Land Rover, too.


Believe whatever, but be careful what you say, especially if you're a public figure.

Quote:
Of course, backlash to controversial comments from athletes isn't new, it's just the financial ramifications have become far greater.

Just ask Stephanie Rice and Manny Pacquiao.

The champion swimmer lost her Jaguar endorsement for taunting Springboks fans after a loss to the Wallabies in 2010, tweeting, "suck on that f****ts". She later apologised.

Nike scrapped their big-money contract with boxer-turned-politician Pacquiao for his anti-gay remarks.

So perhaps that's the takeaway for Australian codes — especially for the NRL, one of the only sporting bodies to not attend any of Ms Kogod's workshops.

When you prioritise inclusivity and diversity in sport, you maximise the commercial rewards.

For better or worse, the way most "problems" are solved is when they affect your hip pocket.


Cynical but true.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-31/israel-folau-rugby-australia-and-the-price-of-equality/11162990

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