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Are we entering the era of the small ruckman?

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Woods Capricorn



Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:05 pm
Post subject: Are we entering the era of the small ruckman?Reply with quote

The change to the rules that will now allow players taking part in ruck contests to grab the ball (without risk of being penalised for holding if they can't dispose of it when tackled) means that ruckmen don't have to be tall.

A coach pursuing a ruck strategy of having his ruckman grab the ball and kick or handball to advantage (rather than tap) is not restricted to selecting only from the talls on his list. A shorter player who has great leap after a few steps might be the better option.

For example, think of a Jamie Elliot or Jeremy Howe type in this role. Not only do they have the ability to reach the ball at height but having taken possession they have faster acceleration and greater agility to clear the ruck contest than would a traditional tall, loping ruckman.

Many have said this new rule change will reinforce the survival of the tall ruckman in the game. In practice it may turn out to have the opposite influence and create a new beast - the short ruckman.
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TaylorMade 



Joined: 11 Feb 2019


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:51 pm
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Dam it!

I knew we should have kept Blair Smile

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brett71 



Joined: 04 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:10 pm
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I just imagined that first ruck contest of next years grandfinal. Elliot floating up and up and up and majestically grabs the ball mid air. Even up there he can hear the ground tremble a split second before making contact with a charging Max Gawn. I then imagined how long the game would be held up for as they ensured all of Elliot's sharp body parts were removed from the ground so there was a safe playing field for the rest of the players.......

.
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TaylorMade 



Joined: 11 Feb 2019


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:47 pm
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brett71 wrote:
I just imagined that first ruck contest of next years grandfinal. Elliot floating up and up and up and majestically grabs the ball mid air. Even up there he can hear the ground tremble a split second before making contact with a charging Max Gawn. I then imagined how long the game would be held up for as they ensured all of Elliot's sharp body parts were removed from the ground so there was a safe playing field for the rest of the players.......

.


rotflmfao

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BazBoy 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:36 am
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One of the best ruckman of the sixties Polly Farmer was 1.91 metres (same as Pendlebury)
He used to leap for the tap and many times grab the ball and hand pass to rover whilst in the air

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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:12 am
Post subject: Re: Are we entering the era of the small ruckman?Reply with quote

Woods wrote:
The change to the rules that will now allow players taking part in ruck contests to grab the ball (without risk of being penalised for holding if they can't dispose of it when tackled) means that ruckmen don't have to be tall.

A coach pursuing a ruck strategy of having his ruckman grab the ball and kick or handball to advantage (rather than tap) is not restricted to selecting only from the talls on his list. A shorter player who has great leap after a few steps might be the better option.

For example, think of a Jamie Elliot or Jeremy Howe type in this role. Not only do they have the ability to reach the ball at height but having taken possession they have faster acceleration and greater agility to clear the ruck contest than would a traditional tall, loping ruckman.

Many have said this new rule change will reinforce the survival of the tall ruckman in the game. In practice it may turn out to have the opposite influence and create a new beast - the short ruckman.


This isn't correct.

The rule change means, if they grab the ball and are immediately tackled, they are not judged to have had prior opportunity. They still need to dispose of the ball correctly within the same time frame/limits as anyone else on the ground. Back to how it was originally, before they bought the stupid rule in (2003).



Ruck contests: prior opportunity

A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity.

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Last edited by Skids on Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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brett71 



Joined: 04 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:14 am
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BazBoy wrote:
One of the best ruckman of the sixties Polly Farmer was 1.91 metres (same as Pendlebury)
He used to leap for the tap and many times grab the ball and hand pass to rover whilst in the air


1.91 cm in tune 1960's was bloody big. I don't remember too many 7 footers in this area. Pales into insignificance though compared to jamie's height of 177cm's. He would be giving up 30 cm's and probably 20kg's in weight.
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brett71 



Joined: 04 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:14 am
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BazBoy wrote:
One of the best ruckman of the sixties Polly Farmer was 1.91 metres (same as Pendlebury)
He used to leap for the tap and many times grab the ball and hand pass to rover whilst in the air


1.91 cm in tune 1960's was bloody big. I don't remember too many 7 footers in this area. Pales into insignificance though compared to jamie's height of 177cm's. He would be giving up 30 cm's and probably 20kg's in weight.
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BazBoy 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:25 am
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Believe John Nichols simalar height —in our patch we had two rucks that spanned 1958 thru to mid 70,s namely Fellowes and Thompson that were 200
cm —

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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:14 am
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Dunno, I would take Cox in our forward line against any oppositions defender.
Remember, ruckwork is an art and just because a bloke can leap or jump doesn’t make him a ruckman ( Grigg had a fair leap on him and how did that work out )


Last edited by Pies2016 on Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Drooge 



Joined: 03 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:21 pm
Post subject: Ahh noReply with quote

How did it work out for Grigg in the Prelim? Body contact is still inevitable at ball ups and boundary throw ins. We are entering the area of the agile ruckman. Thank god we have the best.
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:25 am
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Lynch set to miss pre-season games as Tigers yet to make ruck call

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/lynch-set-to-miss-pre-season-games-as-tigers-yet-to-make-ruck-call-20190218-p50yn3.html

' "We are still undecided about what we do," Balme said of the second ruck set-up, which was a constant discussion during 2018, as the Tigers stuck with Grigg right up until their upset by Collingwood in the preliminary final. "There are a lot of options."
...

The Tigers have several options for the second rucking position, and the approach could vary depending on the opposition. While they have shown little interest in playing Ivan Soldo - their primary back-up - as the second ruckman supporting Nankervis, this is more feasible if they are playing against a dominant opposition ruck, such as Melbourne's Max Gawn or Grundy.

Another possibility is that they try youngster Noah Balta, an athletic and versatile 194cm tall with a decent leap, while Mabior Chol, 199cm, can play in the ruck and Callum Coleman-Jones is the only recognised ruckman on the Richmond list.'
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:53 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

BazBoy wrote:
One of the best ruckman of the sixties Polly Farmer was 1.91 metres (same as Pendlebury)
He used to leap for the tap and many times grab the ball and hand pass to rover whilst in the air


actually, he used t flick it (not handball it). As a result of his play, there was a change to the rules outlawing the flick pass.

as i understand it, a flick pass is where you grab the ball and while still in midair you effectively tap it to your team mate who was running by. Think of it as a tp out that you do while in full possession of the ball. Nearly unguardable.

i wonder if its still illegal.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:38 am
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No, I don't think that's correct. Polly Farmer was so good at handball that he didn't need to "cheat" and flick-pass. It was other teams that decided to test the umpiring and use the flick-pass. There were differences along state lines. (South Australian origins, ...)
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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:17 pm
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^

Actually the flick pass was developed by Footscray under Ted Whitten, and outlawed. Polly Farmer would handpass.

When Nichols and Farmer were playing there was no line across the centre so a short but strong ruckman could use body work on a taller opponent. None of the run at each other and jump we see today. The centre bounce was more like an around the ground ball up today, where body work and skill was more important than height and leap.

IIRC the line across the centre was introduced after Peter Moore and Gary Dempsey wrestled each other to a standstill at each centre bounce in a final.

The days of the 191cm ruckmen are now dead, particularly at centre bounces with the line. A 196/197cm mobile ruckman (like a shaun McKernan) could still have a role but only in teams that lack real mobile talls.

We now have, apart from Grundy, 3 player over 200cm who can play KP and fill in in the ruck in Moore, Cox and roughead.

Melbourne has recruited Brayden Preuss from the roos with the idea of playing him forward changing ruck rather than using McDonald as backup.

If Richmond persist with Grigg I'll be extremely surprised.

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