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Another young woman assaulted and killed.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:01 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/23/its-a-false-comfort-to-say-the-and-of-women-is-caused-by-sexism

Quote:
It's a false comfort to say the murder and rape of women is caused by sexism
Gay Alcorn


We dont have to politicise every act of violence against a woman. It may relieve the anger and sadness to cry this must stop, or to blame the patriarchy, or to, as writer Clementine Ford did after the horrific murder of Aiia Maasarwe last week, demand men pick a side because you are all implicated.

But it doesnt help.

Barely a day after Maasarwes body was found in Bundoora in Melbournes north, allegedly the victim of a random killer (a 20-year-old man has been charged with her rape and murder), the 21-year-old Palestinians death was grist for the gender culture wars, a pointless loop of generalisation, accusation and defensiveness.

A few days before, there was a flurry about the Gillettes the best men can be advertisement and what it said about masculinity in the age of #metoo. That was all good fun and there were some important points made, too but this was about a murder of a young exchange student. Some things are too serious for a hot take, too heart-breaking to be seized upon as evidence for well-worn positions.

As he did after the murder of comedian Eurydice Dixon six months ago, Victorian premier Daniel Andrews spoke nonsense when he sent condolences to the family of Maasarwe. This crime was really about the culture of violence against women, he said. We have to stop blaming bad men for these crimes, while ignoring the sexist attitudes in our society that created them.

There is no evidence that Im aware of that the extremely rare instances of random rape and murder of women two or three a year nationwide according to the Australian Institute of Criminology, with little change in 30 years has anything to do with casual sexist attitudes. There is no causal link between men refusing to call out a sexist joke and the rape and murder of a stranger.

To suggest, as Ford did, that while not all men are responsible for such crimes (big of her), that as you exist in a class of people who maintain these rights and privileges over others it is up to you to be active in destroying that, is about as valid as suggesting Muslims have collective responsibility for a terrorist act committed in the name of Islam.

The loop of fury is endless. Journalist and broadcaster Mike Carlton tweeted that Fords view was bullshit and I had some sympathy for his position. There are ugly trolling men out there, to be sure, but it is all but impossible for any man to express his distaste for trite accusations that unless men speak up against sexism a good thing they are collectively responsible for a horrific rape and murder. To do so proves the accusers point. Men are such snowflakes! How can the poor things be offended when WOMEN ARE BEING RAPED AND MURDERED IN OUR STREETS? Is this a culture war win-win, or lose-lose?

To step back, we have a serious male violence problem (and it would be terrific if Andrews and others would discuss that more, although that doesnt take away from the domestic violence crisis, undoubtedly gendered).

Almost 90% of those who commit homicide (murder and manslaughter) are men. Men make up 64% of homicide victims too. Even in stranger homicides much less common than murders of family members or acquaintances 92% of victims are men.

Why men are so overrepresented in violent crime is contested and horribly complicated. Some argue evolution, some biology (blame testosterone), but few would argue against culture playing a role. Generalisations on masculinity can stretch credulity Ryan Gosling is nothing like Arnold Schwarzenegger. But the American Psychological Associations new guidelines that traditional masculinity marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression - is, on the whole, harmful to boys are hardly radical.

I worry about some of the assumptions. Most of the traits we tend to admire leadership, protection of those who are vulnerable, kindness we honour in women as much as men. And its not always bad for a woman to display a touch of aggression, either.

But to generalise, men pay a high price for the strait jackets we put them in as boys dont show emotion, dont be a sissy. They avoid going to the doctor, including when they need mental health treatment. They suicide at alarming levels. They abuse drug and alcohol more and they fill our jails. #Notallmen of course, but too many of them. All this is overlaid with race and sexual preference Asian men are considered not sufficiently masculine and gay men turned into caricatures. Who would insist that this has nothing to do with the way boys are raised?

Male violence is linked to all this, especially domestic violence where women are far more likely to be victims than men, and where there is evidence that those who hold stereotyped views of gender more readily tolerate violence against women.

But with stranger homicide, there are more vital questions we need to ask. The majority of perpetrators and victims are men. For the tiny number of men who rape and kill women they dont know, the evidence appears to be that they are likely to have been traumatised as children, physically, psychologically or sexually. They are likely to have been neglected. They are emotionally lonely and socially isolated. They may have a sadistic fantasy life. It could be a combination of those things, coupled with substance abuse and mental illness.

Most men who have those experiences will never rape and murder, but a few will, with serious early intervention one possible answer. Are we picking up these kids early, intervening when we notice boys (and a few girls) with extreme violent tendencies? What does that intervention look like? Are we doing enough to protect children from ongoing abuse, knowing its consequences for the men they will become and for their potential victims? Are we treating serious mental illness as seriously as it warrants?

Psychologist Professor James Ogloff has said that it is nave to suggest that respectful relationship programs and calling out sexism as worthy as they are have anything to do with preventing such terrible crimes. Ogloff has studied these kinds of cases, including Adrian Bayley, who raped and killed Jill Meagher, and Scott Miller, who murdered and raped Yuk Ling Lau.

Ogloff told a Melbourne court it was hard to draw any comparisons between the cases Bayley had a history of violent rape, while Millers crime was out of character. There was evidence of ongoing physical abuse against Bayley when he was a child, and the accusations of sexual abuse. His borderline personality disorder was made worse by alcohol abuse. Professor Ogloff said Miller was diagnosed with schizophrenia, which had contributed to his offending, but had not caused it. He was remorseful and had attempted suicide in jail.

Sometimes we fall back on calling people evil, and there is some comfort in that when a crime seems unfathomable. To make it fathomable by insisting such crimes are at one end of everyday sexism, might give us comfort, too. But its false comfort because it isnt true. We owe the victims at least that.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:09 pm
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I prefer to be a male.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:42 pm
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^^ Nail hit head David. Gay Acorn has done it again. Good pick up. She was the writer who put perpective when the AFL overreacted to the sexual Relationship fiasco between Adults.

At the same time she calls out the inadequate right wing boy trolls.

At the same time Im glad Ford wrote what she did: we need discussion about toxic notions of being male and about male violence.

God knows how much online abuse Ford experiences from the undersocialised if not pathetic right wing boys club. Im also glad Acorn called Ford out for the unfairness of her accusations and the lack of merit in some her argument.

Ill refrain from commenting on the use of the term Palestinian without reference to being Israeli. A political decision to use that term but thats for another day.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:36 pm
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^

I agree that it is a very good, factual article that casts down a lot of false current idols. More media people like this please.

I disagree about Clementine Ford who is in my opinion an abject waste of carbon atoms

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:47 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
^^ Nail hit head David. Gay Acorn has done it again. Good pick up. She was the writer who put perpective when the AFL overreacted to the sexual Relationship fiasco between Adults.

At the same time she calls out the inadequate right wing boy trolls.



That's the first time I've seen Dan Andrews described that way. Shocked


Razz Wink

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:24 am
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My perception is the media love murders more than any other criminal act. It's like they hit the jackpot when it's a female that has been brutally murdered. I now see a sensationalist headline and just zone out. I have basically become desensitised thanks to the media.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/almost-a-third-of-victorians-feel-unsafe-at-night-on-public-transport-20190123-p50t62.html
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:15 pm
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Just out of interest, the house where the alleged perpetrator was squatting has been demolished.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:07 pm
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And another one.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-27/victorian-police-charge-man-murder-of-courtney-herron-melbourne/11151644

A young (25) woman who seems to have gone from employed to couch surfing and sleeping rough, apparently with some drug and mental health issues allegedly murdered by 27 year old man with issues of his own. (ADHD, Austism and personality disorder allegedly)

Somehow I doubt this will get the same level of media comment as other recent cases, but it should. If this plays out the way I expect, it should be a cautionary tale about illicit drugs

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:41 pm
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Both homeless, from what I read. Two people with nothing who society abandoned and left to their own devices, and now one’s dead and the other’s an (alleged) murderer.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:59 pm
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Yes and no. I daresay more will come out on the girls story, her mother has apparently denied she was homeless but for whatever reason she was on the street, likely to do with drugs. People in those situations can refuse offers of help that don't fit with where they see themselves, so it's not necessarily like society abandoned them, tad more complicated.
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:00 pm
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^ so very very sad - surely we can do better Crying or Very sad
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:58 pm
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Looks like the root cause of her homelessness was drugs, a Heroin addiction.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/courtney-herron-was-at-gathering-with-alleged-killer-hours-before-her-death-20190527-p51rpv.html

Very sad tale and, as I surmised ealier, should serve as a cautionary tale for young people wanting to experiment with illicit drugs.

The part I don't get is this bit.

Quote:
Ms Herron had told Ms Bateman that she was on waiting lists for housing and could not get on the methadone program, prescribed to treat heroin addiction, without a stable address.


I can get why someone with a supportive family would make different choices in those circumstances, and why couch surfing wears thin, but I don't get why a stable address is required to get on a program like that, if it's factual?

From her perspective, she could have nominated the family home even if she didn't live there, any mail for my daughter comes here and she collects it when she comes over, most stuff she gets electronically.

Any thoughts from those in Health like Morrigu or WPT why an address is required? Why can't an email address suffice, or a mobile number? Is it some bureaucratic hangover from wanting to send all communication by post?

In my mind, that's arse about face. If you're a drug addict who, as a result, is unemployed and homeless, and you want to get treatment for your addiction, surely getting a stable residence is something that happens after you get clean, not a pre-requisite to treatment?

On a slightly surreal side note, it seems that the alleged murderer was a volunteer at some Cafe, Lentil as anything, the same cafe that Eurydice Dixon volunteered at.

Interesting business model. Confused https://www.lentilasanything.com/

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:37 am
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It’s awful, I have no idea what the answer is, but certainly shutting down all the mental health facilities has not helped.
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Skids Cancer

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 4:50 am
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Legalise and regulate all drugs.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:56 am
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stui magpie wrote:
On a slightly surreal side note, it seems that the alleged murderer was a volunteer at some Cafe, Lentil as anything, the same cafe that Eurydice Dixon volunteered at.

Interesting business model. Confused https://www.lentilasanything.com/


We often go to Lentil as Anything in Abbotsford – it's something of a Melbourne institution. It may not be as much of a coincidence as it seems; a lot of volunteers come and go at these places, and might be there for anything from days to years. My partner volunteered for a short time at the St Kilda one a while back.

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