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Welcome to Collingwood, Derek Hine

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MightyMagpie 



Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:48 pm
Post subject: Derek HineReply with quote

Interviewed on Road to the Draft podcast this week for those interested.
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Clemo Capricorn

clemo


Joined: 24 Mar 1998
Location: Mentone

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:20 pm
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http://www.afl.com.au/draft/road-to-the-draft
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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 1:14 am
Post subject: Derek Hine capabilities revisitedReply with quote

When we're winning, our recruiting efforts look more favourable of course.
A lot of people had lost faith in Hine and have been quite critical in this forum.
But I think his efforts reflect quite favourably on his eye for talent and nouse in a trade

Trades
DeG/Crisp/Greenwood - Beams
Treloar - at a price
Jolly
Murray - for little cost in terms of draft points conceded
WHE
Howe
Dunn
Adams - 2nd in our B&F last year, injured again this season, although Shaw has been pretty good for GWS but the coach had decided he needed to be cut for cultural reasons
Aish - who was finally paying good football this season before injury
Varcoe - Lumumba vs Mitch Clark

Late/Value/Rookie Picks
Langdon - 65
Phillips - 58
Lumumba - Rookie
Golsdack - 63
Cox - Int'l rookie
Maynard - 30
Elliott - 25

Top 20
Grundy
Moore
Sidebottom
De Goey
Scharenberg (who has finally got his body right)
Pendlebury
Stephenson
Daisy (pre injuries)
Reid
N Brown

There have been a few relative busts -
Q Lynch, Russell who cost little and were finished
BenKen,
Mayne (who I blame Gubby for primarily because it was the price paid which was so egregious),
N Freeman, Broomhead (where injury has prevented from reaching potential)

but that is a pretty favourable body of work in my opinion

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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 1:54 pm
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I was going to post something similar but you got in before me.
I think it’s even more accurate if we focus on his role in the drafting decisions rather than associate him with established trades.
Trading established players is a footy dept decision ( and Hine would be asked for a contribution ) but draft day is really the domain of the recruiting team.

Hine has come under a lot of criticism since the 2013 draft and history is slowly showing he and his teams strike rate is now pretty good.
All of a sudden this year, Scharenberg and DeGoey are now living up to the expectations that comes with being a top 10 pick.
Does anyone still want Peter Wright over DeGoey ? 😂
Stephenson is a bonafide Star. Sier ( picked as a bottom ager at the time ) isn’t far from a debut and McLarty and Moore as talls are both works in progress.
He’s plucked Langdon, Crocker, Phillips and Marsh who were all very late picks and they have all played senior footy when fit. There are plenty of late picks who never play a senior game at all.
Maynard’s a regular and for the very last time, it is not Derek Hines fault that Freeman did his first hamstring while at Collingwood. We have also mitigated the Freeman fallout by on trading for Aish, who also seemed to have improved this year until injury struck.
There have been a few misses but every club has their regrets. I’m just suggesting post 2013, Hine probably has less regrets than most of his peers.
I now give him a B + between 2013 and 2017
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Captain_MyCaptain Leo



Joined: 25 May 2006
Location: home

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:29 pm
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Question,
Surely Hine has some help from 'others' ?

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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek Hine capabilities revisitedReply with quote

Albert Parker wrote:
When we're winning, our recruiting efforts look more favourable of course.
A lot of people had lost faith in Hine and have been quite critical in this forum.
But I think his efforts reflect quite favourably on his eye for talent and nouse in a trade

Trades
DeG/Crisp/Greenwood - Beams
Treloar - at a price
Jolly
Murray - for little cost in terms of draft points conceded
WHE
Howe
Dunn
Adams - 2nd in our B&F last year, injured again this season, although Shaw has been pretty good for GWS but the coach had decided he needed to be cut for cultural reasons
Aish - who was finally paying good football this season before injury
Varcoe - Lumumba vs Mitch Clark

Late/Value/Rookie Picks
Langdon - 65
Phillips - 58
Lumumba - Rookie
Golsdack - 63
Cox - Int'l rookie
Maynard - 30
Elliott - 25

Top 20
Grundy
Moore
Sidebottom
De Goey
Scharenberg (who has finally got his body right)
Pendlebury
Stephenson
Daisy (pre injuries)
Reid
N Brown

There have been a few relative busts -
Q Lynch, Russell who cost little and were finished
BenKen,
Mayne (who I blame Gubby for primarily because it was the price paid which was so egregious),
N Freeman, Broomhead (where injury has prevented from reaching potential)

but that is a pretty favourable body of work in my opinion




Great thread and great points!

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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 28 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:46 pm
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I agree with this analysis regarding Hine. I think the mistake I made in rushing to judge his ability negatively is simply to underestimate the time required in order to assess accurately the true abilities of young players. De Goey is blossoming into a superstar, but it has taken a few years to see this. Likewise Scharenberg, who has been further delayed by injury.
I have learned a valuable lesson in retrospect from this: time is of the essence in measuring correctly the expertise of recruiters.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 9:26 pm
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^ mttm you will never get far on Nicks showing humility, self-awareness and openness to learning. Sharpen up son !
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:49 pm
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James Stewart omitted.
Been rubbish from the moment Daniher was injured.
Not writing him off yet but hardly a glowing endorsement when you can’t hold your spot in that team.

If you ever want to truly expose a players weaknesses, play him in a crap team.
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AN_Inkling 



Joined: 06 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:14 pm
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Stewart is at best a mediocre tall forward. One that lacks the mobility to play in multiple positions or provide any significant forward pressure. ie. he's a liability to any team dumb enough to play him except under necessity. That Essendon had two other tall forwards and decided to play him as a third is mind bogglingly stupid.
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:39 pm
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AN_Inkling wrote:
Stewart is at best a mediocre tall forward. One that lacks the mobility to play in multiple positions or provide any significant forward pressure. ie. he's a liability to any team dumb enough to play him except under necessity. That Essendon had two other tall forwards and decided to play him as a third is mind bogglingly stupid.

I accept the first premise of your argument, but not the second. He is at best a mediocre tall forward because his decision making is poor and his kicking is off. Stewart however is mobile enough to play the position. I thought his defects could be fixed with a few more games, but apparently not, so he got dropped. Essendon plays better anyway with a more mobile forward line setup that includes Stringer, Fantasia and Tipungwitu. Daniher coming back into the forward line strengthens them up again. It's difficult to see how Stewart can regain his spot in the team, but I wouldn't write him off just yet (maybe we offer him a rookie spot on the list next year).
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AN_Inkling 



Joined: 06 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:27 pm
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^^I'm against playing any mediocre talls unless you absolutely have to and Stewart is only mediocre on his best day. If you require two talls for your structure, maybe you'd play Stewart but you'd be looking for better options as he's quite bad - and one of those is to wake up and realise you don't need two tall forwards if you don't have two good ones. A more mobile forward line is almost certainly better.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:04 pm
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We should look at re-drafting Corey Gault. He's dominating over in the WAFL.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:06 pm
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I'm not sure if I am ready for that yet.
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roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:26 pm
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Ha, good one Hal!

Every year there are "experts" condemning Hine and the recruiters for not picking who they believe should have picked, and more often than not, they are proven wrong.

It wouldn't be so bad if they gave the new recruits a few years to establish whether it was a good choice or not, but no, these "experts" know it all before the kids have even pulled on the black and white stripes.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to change and people continue posting uniformed and ignorant comments.

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