Time Trial 8/1/2018
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | Quite pleased to see Mason Cox's time......
..he'll have a lot of work to do covering for the lack of space cover coming out of the forward pocket! |
oh boy, with Cox AND Kirby back there, teams might stop contesting center clearances. all they need to do is wait for Collingwood to go forward and then they can set up their attack on goal from back there.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| E wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | I think I'm reading it the way you're saying it K. FWIW I think playing Kirby in the last game of the season was the right thing to do. After all we beat Melbourne. Maybe Kirby didn't contribute much but we still won. Whether Kirby makes it or not in the AFL to me will come down to one issue. Can he defend space (ie. when we don't have the ball)? I've seen enough of Josh Daicos already to confidently predict a bright future for him in this regard. Kirby doesn't have to win the 5km time trial. I say over and over again that we get seduced by the stats. I don't care if Kirby runs last in the time trial but I do care in a competitive game of footy if Kirby can't defend his space and the ball goes down the other end and we lose a goal (which decides the game of footy). |
pretty sure his running ability over 2km is a fair indicator of whether he will be able to, as you say, "defend his space". I think what we do know is that based on his 2km running ability, he might be able to defend his space in the first quarter but is unlikely to still be doing it in the third and fourth.....
not fit enough. no tank. lots of work to do. |
I was once disqualified in a school 400m for defending my space. I was a footballer, not a runner, and hip and shouldered a rival as he was about to overtake me. I went out too hard, hit the wall, and instinct kicked in when he tried to pass me. Skinny runners can't take a decent bump. Especially when they are not expecting it. |
... and marathon runners have no lateral movement, which is why we should abandon all of the altitude endurance shit and play football. i am certain that training our kids to run marathons is contributing to all of the injuries.
PS: i think i know who you are. I remember running against tonnes of footballers who would tear off in an 800 meter race and get 20 or 30 yards in front and then pull out after two thirds of lap. Only athletes are athletes. the rest try to do other things, like footy..... |
No, you don't know me. I am older than you. Our paths may have crossed but only in the crowd at the footy. |
how do you know how old i am? or are you older than everyone..... |
From other posts of yours I am aware that my knowledge of our players goes back further than yours. I have assumed that is due to age, not to you being a late comer to the game.
I am not quite at the Methuselah stage yet though. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | I think I'm reading it the way you're saying it K. FWIW I think playing Kirby in the last game of the season was the right thing to do. After all we beat Melbourne. Maybe Kirby didn't contribute much but we still won. Whether Kirby makes it or not in the AFL to me will come down to one issue. Can he defend space (ie. when we don't have the ball)? I've seen enough of Josh Daicos already to confidently predict a bright future for him in this regard. Kirby doesn't have to win the 5km time trial. I say over and over again that we get seduced by the stats. I don't care if Kirby runs last in the time trial but I do care in a competitive game of footy if Kirby can't defend his space and the ball goes down the other end and we lose a goal (which decides the game of footy). |
pretty sure his running ability over 2km is a fair indicator of whether he will be able to, as you say, "defend his space". I think what we do know is that based on his 2km running ability, he might be able to defend his space in the first quarter but is unlikely to still be doing it in the third and fourth.....
not fit enough. no tank. lots of work to do. |
I was once disqualified in a school 400m for defending my space. I was a footballer, not a runner, and hip and shouldered a rival as he was about to overtake me. I went out too hard, hit the wall, and instinct kicked in when he tried to pass me. Skinny runners can't take a decent bump. Especially when they are not expecting it. |
... and marathon runners have no lateral movement, which is why we should abandon all of the altitude endurance shit and play football. i am certain that training our kids to run marathons is contributing to all of the injuries.
PS: i think i know who you are. I remember running against tonnes of footballers who would tear off in an 800 meter race and get 20 or 30 yards in front and then pull out after two thirds of lap. Only athletes are athletes. the rest try to do other things, like footy..... |
No, you don't know me. I am older than you. Our paths may have crossed but only in the crowd at the footy. |
how do you know how old i am? or are you older than everyone..... |
From other posts of yours I am aware that my knowledge of our players goes back further than yours. I have assumed that is due to age, not to you being a late comer to the game.
I am not quite at the Methuselah stage yet though. |
Fair enough (you are very astute). My favorite players growing up were Stan the Man, Ronny Wearmouth and Peter Moore in the early years, but really it was Daics, Millane, Banks, Gavin Brown, etc.
I guess it is easy to tell my age when you look at it that way.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Skids wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | ...
Let's face it the majority of the best footballers aren't and haven't been the best athletes.
Anyone remember a player called Dane Swan ? He was a noted terrible trainer even finding ways to avoid doing it but he was a pretty handy footballer anyways despite that
Pendles isn't quick across the ground but he's quick between the ears (bit like Sam Mitchell) again he's a fair athlete but not outstanding and isn't noted for winning time trials either
I'm more than happy if Kirby can make the grade with pure football ability alone |
He still ran 2k in around 6.30 - 6.45 most seasons.  |
Yes, in the '12-'13 preseason, Swanny was said to have run around 6:45.
More impressively, in November 2008, Travis Cloke ran 6:22. That's a huge effort from someone who (at least a couple of years later) was 105kg.
We should be careful not to shortchange the athletic performance of past players. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | ... Whether Kirby makes it or not in the AFL to me will come down to one issue. Can he defend space (ie. when we don't have the ball)?... |
pretty sure his running ability over 2km is a fair indicator of whether he will be able to, as you say, "defend his space". I think what we do know is that based on his 2km running ability, he might be able to defend his space in the first quarter but is unlikely to still be doing it in the third and fourth.....
... |
I was once disqualified in a school 400m for defending my space. I was a footballer, not a runner, and hip and shouldered a rival as he was about to overtake me. I went out too hard, hit the wall, and instinct kicked in when he tried to pass me. Skinny runners can't take a decent bump. Especially when they are not expecting it. |
 A very entertaining tale, 5ftwod. I think you chose the wrong distance. Since your space is clearly delineated (i.e. your lane), you would have had to reach over and drag the bastard into your lane before you could legitimately defend it in the manner you describe. But in 800m races and greater distances, there aren't separate lanes and one sees the pros defending their space all the time, often with impunity. If you'd chosen a really large distance, you'd have had an added bonus: If at first you did not succeed, you could always have tried, tried again when he came around to lap you. |
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John LEWIN
Joined: 19 Aug 2017
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Kirby is a great prospect. Impatience will be the challenge, for us, the club and even more so for him. Yes fitness, all round, is an issue. Only patience and development will resolve that issue. Give the kid a chance and let's encourage him. I won't be disappointed if he spends the year in the VFL if he does and comes out the end on track to fulfil his potential we could have another Leon.
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JL |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| E wrote: |
... and marathon runners have no lateral movement, which is why we should abandon all of the altitude endurance shit and play football. i am certain that training our kids to run marathons is contributing to all of the injuries.
.... |
An interesting hypothesis, E. Well, actually, you raise two issues: altitude training, and marathon training. We do, of course, have that expensive altitude room. But have we really trained our kids to run marathons in the past under BD? |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| K wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | ... Whether Kirby makes it or not in the AFL to me will come down to one issue. Can he defend space (ie. when we don't have the ball)?... |
pretty sure his running ability over 2km is a fair indicator of whether he will be able to, as you say, "defend his space". I think what we do know is that based on his 2km running ability, he might be able to defend his space in the first quarter but is unlikely to still be doing it in the third and fourth.....
... |
I was once disqualified in a school 400m for defending my space. I was a footballer, not a runner, and hip and shouldered a rival as he was about to overtake me. I went out too hard, hit the wall, and instinct kicked in when he tried to pass me. Skinny runners can't take a decent bump. Especially when they are not expecting it. |
A very entertaining tale, 5ftwod. I think you chose the wrong distance. Since your space is clearly delineated (i.e. your lane), you would have had to reach over and drag the bastard into your lane before you could legitimately defend it in the manner you describe. But in 800m races and greater distances, there aren't separate lanes and one sees the pros defending their space all the time, often with impunity. If you'd chosen a really large distance, you'd have had an added bonus: If at first you did not succeed, you could always have tried, tried again when he came around to lap you. |
We were running on the footy oval so there were no lanes - we just had to keep outside the boundary line! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | K wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: |
I was once disqualified in a school 400m for defending my space. I was a footballer, not a runner, and hip and shouldered a rival as he was about to overtake me. I went out too hard, hit the wall, and instinct kicked in when he tried to pass me. Skinny runners can't take a decent bump. Especially when they are not expecting it. |
A very entertaining tale, 5ftwod. I think you chose the wrong distance. Since your space is clearly delineated (i.e. your lane), you would have had to reach over and drag the bastard into your lane before you could legitimately defend it in the manner you describe. But in 800m races and greater distances, there aren't separate lanes and one sees the pros defending their space all the time, often with impunity. If you'd chosen a really large distance, you'd have had an added bonus: If at first you did not succeed, you could always have tried, tried again when he came around to lap you. |
We were running on the footy oval so there were no lanes - we just had to keep outside the boundary line! |
The footy oval? E will be horrified when he finds out. Defending your space is okay, then. Perhaps you should have gone full John Bourke and defended your defence of space to those who disqualified you. (Or was John Bourke perhaps inspired by your race?) |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-01-17/running-men-whos-your-clubs-endurance-king
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The difficulty in putting together an exercise like this is emphasised by the fact that clubs are notoriously secretive of the times their players run, desperate not to give opposition teams any competitive advantage.
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Should we fear opposition visits to Magpie bulletin boards giving them a competitive advantage?
| Quote: | ...
Previous stars: Paul Licuria was the pick of the bunch at the Magpies and ran a time of 13 minutes and 24 seconds around the Tan running track in 2004. Nathan Buckley was also a strong performer, clocking a time of 13 minutes and 53 seconds around the 3.84 km track.
... |
Interesting. Much can be said about this...
Some Tan times:
Craig Mottram 10:08 (2006) [beating Richmond footballers, while giving them a 2 1/2-minute head-start]
Steve Moneghetti 10:41 (2003)
Rob De Castella "close to 11 minutes as a junior"
David Spriggs (Geelong) 12:40
Tim Clarke (Hawthorn) "close to 12 minutes" [world cross-country junior representative, brother of Georgie Clarke]
Some other Mottram PBs:
1500m 3:33.97
2000m 4:50.76
3000m 7:32.19
5000m 12:55.76
10000m 27:34.48
If we assume Licuria's & Buckley's times scaled roughly the same way as Mottram's, then their 2k times would have been about 6:24 & 6:38.
[Travis Cloke's 2008 effort of 6:22 is looking better and better.] |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| E wrote: | | K wrote: | | Albert Parker wrote: | A collation of the best recorded times over 2km in the world - by age
2 000 METRES
6 7:43.8 Daniel Skandera USA 2 Nov 07 Santa Rosa CA 5 Oct 14
7 7:09.6 Daniel Skandera USA 2 Nov 07 Santa Rosa CA 4 Oct 15
8 6:54.6 Daniel Skandera USA 2 Nov 07 Santa Rosa CA 27 Oct 16
9 6:28.6 Daniel Skandera USA 2 Nov 07 Oakland CA 11 Oct 17
10 6:28.4 Reyes Estévez ESP 2 Aug 76 Barcelona 9 May 87
11 6:15.80 William Levay SWE 27 Aug 96 Stockholm 26 Aug 08
12 6:04.1 Lucas Bourgoyne USA 7 Apr 01 Houston TX 30 Mar 14
13 5:37.33 Dalibor Balgač CRO 22 Sep 77 Varaždin 3 Aug 91
... |
This is interesting, because it contradicts the 5:59 for 9-year-olds I quoted previously. It could be due to restrictions on the type of meet, timing system, etc. e.g. Hand timing might be ignored, even though it's not all that important for long distances. Along those lines, note that the dominant distance-running countries are not represented in that list (until 19-yr-olds), which mainly contains wealthy countries. |
i also dispute these facts. Here is a list of Australian only best times for various events in little athletics for the under 12 (the division i won states in).
I find it absurd to think that Peter Johnston couldn't have run an additional 500- meters at the end of this 1,500 in less than 1 minute 40. And he is just a random Australian (albeit a brilliant one)! he probably doesnt have a recorded 2km time though because it wasnt an official distance on the track (which might expalin the slow times up to 12yo)!!
Now while 4.25 is off the charts brilliant for a 1,500 meters by a 12yo in Australia, 4.40 was always the pace you had to aim for to win states in the 1,500 as a 12 yo and many boys were around that pace EVERY year (and that was over 30 years ago). And that is only Victoria, not Australia and certainly not the entire WORLD!
Having run 1.5km at 3 minute KM pace, its hard to imagine dropping back to 4 minute KM pace for the final 500 meters. Therefore, I'd suggest that most state level 12yo 1,500 meter runners (lets say the top 20 each year) in Victoria alone would easily do 2kms under 6.30 (and therefore make the top 8 of Collingwood's time trial)! So call bullshit all you like....
By the way, not totally sure of the math, but i think Craig Topperwein (at 12 yo) was on pace to beat Kirby for 2kms doing the WALK!!!
BOYS UNDER 12
400 metres 1979 Fred MARTIN WA 55.14 {S}
800 metres 2014 Adam SPENCER VIC 2.10.26
1500 metres 1980 Peter JOHNSTON NSW 4.25.3
1500m Walk 1984 Craig TOPPERWEIN SA 6.31.6 |
It occurred to me that one of the main two reasons for discrepancies in the alleged world age records may be something I didn't mention at all: the definition of the age group. If in all places it were simply the age on the day you ran, i.e. you qualify as 12 and under until the day of your 13th birthday, then there would at least be consistency. But it might be your age on 31st December of that year. Or 31st December of the previous year. That obviously makes a huge difference. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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