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Article 12: Midfielder vs the Key tall debate

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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:42 am
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It's an interesting time where the traditional:

* Full back
* Centre Half Back
* Centre half forward
* Full Forward

are an anachronism. The game has shifted to a "Power forward" with mid sized fleet footed crumbers or a "Key back" with an interceptor or two cutting in. As such, I am wondering whether if Naughton was to be taken by the Dockers, the Pies may switch their focus to "best player available" vs key position needs.

Time shall tell

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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:31 am
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It's a really good topic of conversation and it ultimately centres around list profiles and list management.
There is a subtle difference in what the Pies may choose to do.
We could pick next best available or we could pick next best available that suits our list profile needs.
Everyone is looking for the next Bont but if Collingwood were convinced that naughton was a 150 + game player, our list profile suggests we need to pick naughton ( if still available ) ahead of gun mid type.
By recent example, I'm convinced McLarty wasn't the next best player when we selected him but I think he was next best for our list profile needs.

Still on list profiles, I can guarantee the pies would much rather introduce an 18 year old KPD onto the list while Reid and Dunn are still there, than not.

Failing all that, Fogarty or Cerra will suit just fine.
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Adam Treloar 3 Votes 



Joined: 09 May 2017


PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:38 pm
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I think it’s a little premature to be claiming that a strong spine is less relevant in 2018 than previously on the basis of two years where this wasn’t necessarily the case. In both cases the teams that won had been a long time without a premiership and were hungrier and just wanted it more than their opponents.

Adelaide, GWS, Sydney, West Coast Eagles and Essendon all have strong spines and all played finals football.

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Adam Treloar 3 Votes 



Joined: 09 May 2017


PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:42 pm
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Recruiters shouldn’t just be looking for the next Bont, what about the next Rance or next Carey? Richmonds success is due as much to Alex Rance as to any midfielder including Dustin Martin.
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:48 pm
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Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote:
Recruiters shouldn’t just be looking for the next Bont, what about the next Rance or next Carey? Richmonds success is due as much to Alex Rance as to any midfielder including Dustin Martin.

I've got news for you. Martin just won the Norm Smith medal (Houli was pretty good as well). So who do you prefer out of Martin and Rance now?
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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:34 pm
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Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote:
I think it’s a little premature to be claiming that a strong spine is less relevant in 2018 than previously on the basis of two years where this wasn’t necessarily the case. In both cases the teams that won had been a long time without a premiership and were hungrier and just wanted it more than their opponents.

Adelaide, GWS, Sydney, West Coast Eagles and Essendon all have strong spines and all played finals football.


Think the notion of a "true Centre Half forward" and Center half back have faded!

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Adam Treloar 3 Votes 



Joined: 09 May 2017


PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:31 pm
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^ Inxs

Well Melbourne just paid two first round draft picks to get Lever after the Crows were desperate to keep him and several other clubs were interested. Pretty sure they don’t agree with your assessment regarding importance of CHB faded.

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Adam Treloar 3 Votes 



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:38 pm
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^ Bucksisfuturecoach

The midfielders almost always get the awards because they gather more possessions. It is a lot harder to measure the value of a defender because a lot of their work is just getting a spoil in, laying a tackle or taking the ball over boundary line etc. Rances value and contribution to Richmond is well known, the fact he was named captain of the all Australian team speaks volumes of the regard he is held in.

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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:11 am
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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote:
Recruiters shouldn’t just be looking for the next Bont, what about the next Rance or next Carey? Richmonds success is due as much to Alex Rance as to any midfielder including Dustin Martin.

I've got news for you. Martin just won the Norm Smith medal (Houli was pretty good as well). So who do you prefer out of Martin and Rance now?


I generally go along with most you say but if you reckon Martin was Norm Smith deserving winner well. Voss, Harry Taylor and and Daisy and Sidebottom all robbed blind. I could argue all night about Monkey as well but it doen't matter. There were at least 3 tiger players better than Martin. Maybe 4 or 5.

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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:07 am
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^^^

Well Walker and Jenkins were certainly in the best for Richmond ( and interestingly enough, both key forwards )
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:37 am
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I'm not downplaying the role of Rance in Richmond's GF, but really it was the mids running off the Richmond backline that were more responsible for the win than anything Rance did. Walker and Jenkins were choked of any opportunity to get the ball. Ronrat is right. Houli was bog with Martin behind him. We got Murray to get that run off the backline that the last two premiership sides have. If it works out for Murray, his role will be more important than Dunn, McLarty, or Goldsack (if they play him down back).

So given the results of the last two GF's, mids who can move the ball with lightening precision from half back to half forward are more important than KPP's. So if given a choice between say Noughton/ Brander, or guys like Stephenson, Coffield, Cera, Darcy Fogarty or Brayshaw, who are all gun players, you can mount a very good argument to draft a mid instead of a KPP, despite our lack of KPP's.
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:09 am
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^^^

Don't disagree with that but I would add to that, at least a KPD can still impact the game if his own mid field is getting beaten. On the other hand, a KPF ( non ruck option ) can only stand and watch if his midfield can't get first hands on it.
By example, Richmond were extremely competive all year ( except Saints ) and a big part of their success is Rance. Even when they were getting beaten in the midfield, he was so good, they were never out of the contest.
There is no doubt any club is off to a good start when you have easily the best CHB in the comp at your disposal every week.

What we do know, is that the KPFs role is changing very quickly in the modern game. The challenge is for list managers to anticipate just where it's headed.
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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:33 pm
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One thing we can guarantee is that the Pies shall pick an Oakleigh Chargers player!
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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:04 am
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Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote:
^ Bucksisfuturecoach

The midfielders almost always get the awards because they gather more possessions. It is a lot harder to measure the value of a defender because a lot of their work is just getting a spoil in, laying a tackle or taking the ball over boundary line etc. Rances value and contribution to Richmond is well known, the fact he was named captain of the all Australian team speaks volumes of the regard he is held in.


Agreed. Martin wasn't BOG on GF day in my opinion. Houli should have got it.
Martin was just the romantic story, albeit he did have a high possession count.
Rance set the game up in the first half.

No doubt Rance and Reiwoldt were vital to Richmond's structures across the season.

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