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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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E wrote: |
who did we trade away without getting fair value in return. Just curious?
Heath Shaw - Adams
Beams - DeGoey, Crisp, Greenwood
Wellers - Grundy
Dawes - Broomhead
Lumumba - Varcoe
Dale Thomas - We turned this pick into Scharenberg (by using the number 11 comp pick and upgrading it to 6 in a deal with WCE).
All traded away. Are you suggesting we got screwed on these trades?
Or are you annoyed that we got nothing for Brown, Didak, BJ, Jolly, Ball, Swan, Toovey, Macaffer, Maxwell, and Davis when they RETIRED!!!
So in conclusion, what an ignorant post!
So to return to reality, it is true that we havent had many assets at our disposal so the rebuild has been hard. |
lets go thru them
Shaw ..all australian twice and Adams the freindly butcher
Beams 17 brownlow votes this year to JDG 5! The other 2 players are ordinary players.
Wellers... i love this about Grundy for Wellers it really is an ignorant statement. Grundy was the best big man in the draft that year. Every scribe said so. But West Coast didn't need a big guy they had Nic Nat and Dean Cox plus 2 other big guys but needed midfielders hence the trade. We had the next 2 draft picks so Grundy would have fallen to us anyway.
Dawes versus Broomhead, Dawes wins that hands down.
Harry versus Varcoe, well Varcoe has had a half decent year in 2015 and that is it.
Thomas versus the Berg, well are you serious! As for the others who retired....a few retired early because of a certain coach.
The revisionist posters like you who said the 2011 team was washed up is really an attempt by the pro Buckley camp to smear the MM coached side of 2011. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Revisionist who?
Adams will be playing good football long after Shaw has retired,
Beams wanted to go home cos his dad had cancer
Wellers, delisted, Grundy, Star
Dawes, delisted by Melbourne, Broomhead still playing
harry o, retired/delisted, varcoe still playing well when not injured.
Thomas, done nothing at Carlton, Scharenberg will be playing for the nest 10 years.
How someone can make those situations into negatives for Collingwood is beyond me _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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ad4eva
Joined: 15 Jan 2006 Location: The 'G'
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It does depend on how your current overall outlook on the pies is at the moment - half full or half empty, which can easily sway an argument for the moves mentioned. I can see arguments for most cases as the jury is still out on some. My take below...
Adams - Technically the jury is still out here. Shaw has been a star and may be for another year or so while Adams looks to be one for the next 8-10 years, but he's not quite there yet. The pies should win this one, so long as Adams bridges the gap from in and under ball magnet who butches the footy to an A grade star. He also has the wraps to potentially captain one day.
Beams - This one will be in limbo for a while yet. Beams is a genuine star, incredibly hard to just replace at the click of a finger (could argue we did with Treloar). Sure Crisp is proving serviceable while Greenwood has been just ok, but the key here is DeGoey. Degoey's next 2 years are huge for the club. He has the potential to be a star with X-Factor. Time will tell and we will all hold our breath.
Wellingham/Grundy - This is the easiest of the lot. Wellingham has fallen off the face of the AFL earth while Grundy is a 22 year old ruck man thats on the cusp of grabbing the bull by the horns and rolling with it. Even if Grundy's improvement stagnates and he provides the value he does now, we still win this one.
Dawes/Broomhead - Ask yourself, would Melbourne be sitting here saying they won this trade? No. Dawes walked to a huge carrot of over 600k per year. I know we used pick 20 here but IMO the only two others i would consider after this selection is Tim Membrey (pick 46) or Rory Atkins (pick 81). Broomhead has one more year to make this work. If it doesn't I call this a nil all draw.
HarryO/Varcoe - Similar to the Dawes/Broomhead response. The parrellels between Varcoes time with Collingwood and the clubs results are uncanny. We see moments, 20 minutes, even 3 quarters of brilliance which whet the appetite and leave you wanting more, all to be put on hold with a hammy here, or shoulder there. At worst, we walk away from this trade with the best of a bad situation, or at best, we walk away complete winners with the final 2 or 3 years of Travis Varcoe guiding this young side back into September.
Thomas/Scharenberg - Again, alot of water to go under this bridge but as it stands we dodged an expensive bullet here. If you take the emotion out of it all, Thomas walked after an injury plagued season to chase 800k+ per year, all to amount to a string of frustrating fruitless years. The Scharenberg gamble is still pending and I am happy to give him another two years, although 2018 is crucial to forecast what might be yet to come. If Shaz lives up to potential, this is a big win for us. If he doesn't, then the 2013 draft is a disaster for Hine and co. which could cost the club dearly but Thomas' departure surely wont. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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^^^
Very well balanced post. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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masoncox wrote: | K wrote: | FWIW, Buckenara's view on the list...Adams fans, look away now.
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A-grade: Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Wells (when fit)
A-B: De Goey, Grundy
B: Elliott, Treloar, Moore (will be an A-grader), Hoskin-Elliott, Howe
B-C: Fasolo, Goldsack, Maynard, Reid, Adams (ball use holds him back)
C: Langdon, Dunn, Varcoe, Greenwood, Thomas, Crisp, Broomhead, Cox
D or developing: Scharenberg, Aish, Sinclair, Mayne, Brown, Daicos, McLarty, Phillips, Kirby, Wills, Ramsay, Sier, Smith, Crocker, Keeffe, Schade, Oxley, McCarthy, Mackie, Lynch
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Generally agree with that give or take 1 or 2.
Trouble is we have 3 A graders, one is cooked ( Wells ) and Pendles is on the other side of best. Can't win a flag unless we have 6 to 8 or more A graders in any one year. It is why I have been ultra critical of Hine....no where near enough A graders scouted. |
How many A graders does it take to change a lightbulb... err... win a flag? A one-year-old (i.e. before even the pre-season of the past season) analysis of the 2017 club lists by Champion Data gave the following. (Their definition of "elite" was being in the top 10% for one's position.)
Seemed amusing at first ("Bulldogs will defend their premiership!"), but probably a reasonable correlation with the final ladder for 2017 (& 2016).
Does it suggest Richmond were (even) luckier than the Bulldogs?
CLUB ELITE, ABOVE AVERAGE, TOTAL
Western Bulldogs 6 13 19
GWS Giants 6 11 17
West Coast 6 8 14
Adelaide 4 10 14
Sydney 6 7 13
St Kilda 1 11 12
Collingwood 2 10 12
Port Adelaide 3 7 10
Melbourne 2 8 10
Hawthorn 5 5 10
Geelong 5 4 9
Fremantle 3 6 9
Richmond 3 6 9
Gold Coast 3 5 8
North Melbourne 1 6 7
Essendon 0 7 7
Carlton 2 3 5
Brisbane Lions 0 3 3 |
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