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Greens civil war

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:49 am
Post subject: Greens civil warReply with quote

Anyone who's been watching the Greens closely over the past few years will have seen this coming for a while: a stand-off between the party leadership and the New South Wales wing represented by Senator Lee Rhiannon.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/lee-rhiannon-suspended-from-greens-party-room-pending-reform-in-nsw-20170628-gx05zq.html

Rhiannon's only one politician, and not exactly an indispensable one at that if anything, her radical past has often been used to mischievously paint the party as a whole as militant leftists, so her departure wouldn't hurt their public image that much. What makes this potentially catastrophic for the Greens is that this struggle cuts to the core of who they are: a mainstream party of the reformist, social-democratic centre/centre-left, or a broader church that at least has space for a hardcore activist wing.

Rhiannon and the New South Wales faction are the party's only remaining link with radical politics; most socialists see Di Natale as having sold the party out to the liberal/managerial urban middle class. Get leftists totally offside as is already happening; many have reacted with disgust to the party's treatment of Rhiannon and the Greens risk a serious party split which could see them lose any good will that those on the left still held towards them, and find themselves wedged in the centre. Not a bad result for their electoral prospects, necessary a great many left-wing votes may still float their way via preferences but certainly bad for their credibility.

Generally speaking, I support the party's current direction. Unlike other supposedly 'liberal' parties like the US Democrats and pre-Corbyn British Labour, the Greens under Di Natale have remained staunchly committed to progressive social and economic policy, and have shown no signs of embracing a neo-liberal agenda. What Di Natale has done is effectively manoeuvre the Greens' image into that of a mainstream party that can effectively wield balance of power and perhaps one day government, which is a big improvement on their earlier incarnation as niche environmentalists with a list of nice but disjointed progressive social policies.

Leftists need to remember that the Greens are currently the only chance of a progressive social policy platform coming to pass in this country, and that their current position is the result of twenty-plus years of development. To waste all that on sectarianism would be devastating. Nonetheless, I do think the party's PR on this has been terrible, and it all could have been handled much better without the need to make one of their own politicians into a martyr.

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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:06 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a civil war.

Rhiannon is a dickhead who has crippled the Greens vote in NSW for years. Kick her out and move on.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:18 am
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Any party that wants to govern in Australia has to be able to attract votes from the centre. The balancing act is being mainstream enough without losing your soul.

Turnbull is steering the Libs toward centre and copping the backlash from the right wing.

Shorten has to balance the expectations of the union powerbase

Di natalie seems to be doing a good job, but this kind of thing is inevitable, the far left nuts will get disenfranchised.

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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:34 pm
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What we are missing here, of course, is a left-wing party.

Labor, once centre-left, was dragged by Hawke past the centre to the centre-right position it still occupies.

The Greens have never really fitted onto the left-right spectrum, and minus their NSW branch, still won't. You could probably call them "vaguely leftish" but no self-respecting left-winger would claim them as his own.

The "moderate" wing of the Liberal Party is squarely right-wing. The Liberal right is hard right.

PHON is, like the Greens, harder to classify. They are broadly far right, but with weird left and centre-left policies mixed in.

Xenofraud is straight moderate right. Katter is as hard to classify as PHON. Hinch is right. McGowan is moderate right.

On the left ..... crickets.

Rhiannon (or some better candidate - it shouldn't be too hard to find one - should stand as what she is: a genuine left-wing candidate. (And stop buggering up the Greens.)

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SweatyPie 



Joined: 04 Jun 2004


PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:00 pm
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She's the 'special guest' on Insiders on Sunday at 7am. Looks like it's popcorn for breakfast tomorrow. 🍿😎
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:10 am
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SweatyPie wrote:
She's the 'special guest' on Insiders on Sunday at 7am. Looks like it's popcorn for breakfast tomorrow. 🍿😎


Are you in New Zealand? Unless things have changed, Insiders is on at 0900 (sorry) 9.am. AESFT (Australian Eastern Standard Freezing Time)

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SweatyPie 



Joined: 04 Jun 2004


PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:37 am
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watt price tully wrote:
SweatyPie wrote:
She's the 'special guest' on Insiders on Sunday at 7am. Looks like it's popcorn for breakfast tomorrow. 🍿😎


Are you in New Zealand? Unless things have changed, Insiders is on at 0900 (sorry) 9.am. AESFT (Australian Eastern Standard Freezing Time)



7am AWST on 24 ABC NEWS

I might have to make extra popcorn as Gerard Henderson, David Marr and Katharine Murphy will be slogging it out with our own Barrie Cassidy. Looks like Mr H will be in for a good old fashioned reaming. 😳😀
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:49 am
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Tannin wrote:
On the left ..... crickets.

Unfortunately, it's brain-dead easy to start a party on the right.

Once you (a) propose shoveling money and public assets into the pockets of extreme wealth, and (b) incite violent wrath against whatever ragtag minority groups are laying around, the platform, funding, media coverage and core vote writes itself.

Meanwhile, anyone with a fraction of self-and-other awareness is left scratching for funds and ethical ideas that don't involve damaging social quality by selling out to robber barons, or employing mob violence.

Even worse, except for the very occasional freak, it takes a complete mental case to lead a party, and most certainly a nation. The fantasy that one is knowledgeable and balanced enough to take on such responsibility, and the web of self-and-other deception needed to sustain the destructive policies which get one to power, are alone enough to exclude the sane.

The existential crisis of our day is this: decent, intelligent folk know too much about themselves and others to sustain such delusions.

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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:03 am
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For those who are bored, this page/group is a good laugh! Laughing

https://www.facebook.com/LeftRenewal/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:01 pm
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A good take on this by Bernard Keane:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/07/03/greens-libs-wrestle-with-party-memberships-and-the-problem-of-electability/

Quote:
For both the Liberal Party and the Greens, their NSW branches are proving to be problematic at the moment, in different contexts, but on much the same basic issue: how far should a parliamentary political party represent the views of its membership rather than the will of the wider electorate?

The NSW Greens argue that their power to bind senators to vote in a certain way is more democratic than allowing the federal party room to reach decisions itself, because it gives NSW Greens members a real say in policy. Thats certainly more democratic internally. It isnt more democratic per se, however. In fact, that a group of unelected officials and members, reminiscent of Labors faceless men, can require elected politicians to vote a certain way is arguably less democratic. The logical extension of that position is that Lee Rhiannon neednt bother ever going to Canberra the state branch can simply tell her colleagues and the Senate which way shed vote and save everyone the expense of her attending the Senate, since what transpires there such as negotiations over legislation are apparently irrelevant.

In the case of the NSW Greens, the views of the hard left on what constitutes democratic should be taken with a pinch of salt anyway. This is the branch that, hoping to win Anthony Albaneses eminently gettable seat of Grayndler, put forward a doctrinaire Trotskyite who was of the view that an Abbott government was preferable to a more progressive government because it would radicalise people more. Albanese was duly and comfortably returned.

And this is a pattern with the NSW Greens it under-performs electorally. Whereas the Victorian Greens picked up nearly one and a half quotas in 2016, the NSW Greens couldnt muster one, and their vote actually fell in the Senate a poor performance in what should be a strong state for the party. this, apparently, hasnt been any cause for introspection on behalf of the NSW party, which appears more focused at the moment on fighting other branches and the federal parliamentary party.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:06 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare that to a bad take on this by Bernard Keane httpswww dotcrikeydot comdot au20170703greens-libs-wrestle-with-party-memberships-and-the-problem-of-electability [quote]For the Liberal Party and the Greens their NSW branches proving to be problematic at the moment in different contexts but on much the same issue how should a parliamentary party represent the views of its membership rather than the will of the wider electorate are proving to be problematic at the moment in different contexts but on much the same.
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Jezza Taurus

2023 PREMIERS!


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Four Corners is covering the ongoing "civil war" within the Greens tonight.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/greens-in-turmoil-as-senior-figures-trade-insults/8800484

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:10 pm
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Slow news night, obviously, if they think that is worthy of a broadcast.
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