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UK Election June 8th

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:07 pm
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I thought that was a poor article, which did not do what its title purported to do : explain and defend his policies.

This is a pity, as most of policies are stupid and damaging, but not all. For example, building a million new homes is quite feasible, when the government's cost of borrowing is still relatively low and the borrowing could be comfortably funded by reasonable rents or purchase prices. A special bond issue to do this is quite conceivable.

The non-renewal of Britain's vastly-expensive nuclear deterrent is probably reasonable at this point, as it's not clear quite who we would be deterring with it.

I admit that this seems a pretty poor return from the twenty useful policies that a creative Socialist think tank should come up with, but it's a start.

Where Corbynism fails so badly is in its inability to rethink Leftist politics for a globalised, digital age. It falls back continually on the idea that the nation state is a kind of autarkic body which can pursue goals without being buffeted by forces beyond its border. To fail to do this type of thinking is not just lazy, it's irresponsible.

So what might a genuinely creative socialist programme look like ? Well I think it should start out with a proper study into who owns Britain, and where capital is invested in British society. If it is true that much of the country's premium asset base is owned by foreign oligarchs and companies, or individuals with a staggering net worth, then it is worth targeting those via a focused land tax. I also think that money invested in existing residential property should be targeted. Wealth that is invested in businesses and genuine value-creation should be encouraged and subject to a lower tax rate.

I would also be in favour of a people's bank, with vanilla savings, mortgage and superannuation products at ultra-low cost. The existing banks are rapacious and oligopolistic, extracting far more value than they should because of their exploitation of ignorant consumers.

The aged pension in the UK is unfunded, and it is clearly unsustainable as people live longer and draw down benefits that they did not fund during their working lives. Those who wish to draw it below the age of 70 should be asked to contribute time to social work, such as care for the elderly, education support or environmental improvement.

Labour also needs to level with the people and explain that the public services they want are being paid for by deficit funding, which has built up an appalling legacy of debt for future generations. If they want better services, these will have to be paid for by an increase in the basic rate of tax, which is currently 22%. Continuing to rely on the "rich" (which Labour risibly defined this week as an income of £70k per annum ) is shrinking the tax base to the point where it is irresponsibly vulnerable.

All of the above might be good socialist policies which could work and improve the quality of life for ordinary people. Alas, Corbynism is plodding and senile and riven by class war thinking, so it either has not thought of them or will not pursue them. He won't win, but if he did, he would bankrupt the country and put it in the hands of the IMF very swiftly.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:25 am
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Mugwump, is there something you're not telling us? Wink

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/27/mugwump-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-mutton-headed-old

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:17 pm
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David wrote:
Mugwump, is there something you're not telling us? Wink

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/27/mugwump-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-mutton-headed-old


Haha, no idea where that came from ! As usual with Boris, the verbal wheel spins and there is no telling where it's going to land, but you can be fairly sure it'll be nowhere near thought.

I think I've explained this before somewhere, but my father used to call me mugwump when I was about three years old - presumably ironically because its original meaning to the Algonquin natives was "great chief". In my pre-literate state, I used to confuse magpies and mugwumps, so for some of my early years I thought I followed the mugwumps. Lately, it just feels like following the mugs, alas.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:31 pm
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David wrote:
Here's how Corbyn can win:

Just kidding.


Look out

Quote:
London: Britain's general election is too close to call.

It is very hard to convey just how astonishing this is, just how contrary to every expectation, prediction and received wisdom.

Just a month and a half ago, when Prime Minister Theresa May stood behind her lectern outside 10 Downing Street and solemnly announced "we need a general election and we need one now", the Conservatives polled 24 points ahead of Labour and led in every age group, social class and region. In April, Labour's support in the polls was its worst since 1983.

As soon as the election was called on April 18, the Conservative numbers shot up. Pollsters quibbled over the size of the Tory landslide. While May tried to pretend she'd called the poll because of Brexit, the political calculation was clear.

But in the last week, pollster YouGov has hit May with a double blow. First it did some seat-by-seat calculations and predicted the Conservatives would lose seats, Labour would gain, with a hung parliament the most likely outcome.


http://www.theage.com.au/world/uk-election-theresa-mays-early-election-gamble-looks-set-to-backfire-20170602-gwiulk.html

Looks like getting messy.

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:50 pm
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After Trump it's hard to take these polls to seriously.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:01 pm
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swoop42 wrote:
After Trump it's hard to take these polls to seriously.
I would suggest that after Trump, the right wing parties are no longer seen as an option for the "protest vote". Non compulsory voting will see May get first past the post.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:06 pm
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Culprit wrote:
swoop42 wrote:
After Trump it's hard to take these polls to seriously.
I would suggest that after Trump, the right wing parties are no longer seen as an option for the "protest vote". Non compulsory voting will see May get first past the post.


Keep in mind, Trump was probably the least right wing of all the Republican candidates.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:18 pm
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Agree with that. His policies are shitting on all those who blindly voted for him out of protest though. I love Trump. My son was going to move to the US and live with his GF. Instead she arrived last Tuesday and wants to stay here. Razz Mind you I did say to him that if he moved to the US I would most likely see him more than I do now. Razz
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:22 pm
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^

More bloody political refugees. Razz

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:27 pm
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Elections have a way of exposing things that government does not. As each week has gone by, May has looked more and more like someone who is not up to the job. She answers every question with one of three sound bites like a malfunctioning robot crossed with a praying mantis, and it is annoying the hell out of the whole British population.

Corbyn is not up to it either, but we already knew that, and at least he communicates like a human being. And he has of course promised more free stuff to everybody except the top 5% of the population, so the polls have narrowed.

May is still long odds-on to get across the line, but she will be so damaged that it would not surprise me to see a leadership challenge within 12 months. On exposed form, this would be a deserved outcome. Not Prime Minister material, as it turns out.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:10 pm
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We need a better class of politicians, worldwide.

May v Corbyn
Trump v Clinton
Gillard v Abbott
Krudd v Turnbull
Mugabe v ...............?

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:26 pm
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^ true, but in democracies it's a job where people from everywhere knock spots off you every day, and I doubt many leaders of any calibre can really succeed in such a culture. Still, there are good ones in the mix : Obama, Cameron and Merkel, regardless of whether one likes their policies or not, were up to the job. As Enoch Powell said, all political careers end in failure, but (as he didn't say) some manage to achieve things along the way and look assured while doing it.

The worry is that populations in most democratic nations are now so infantilised and ignorant that they are getting politicians who play to that.

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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:50 pm
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Oh dear. One impressive-sounding one who sadly achieved a lot less than expected in the end, and two massive farnarkleups in those three. Merkel's fanatic determination to flood Europe with foreign migrants has been truly disastrous, not just in its direct effects, but also because it was far and away the primary cause of the contempt many people feel for politicians today, and the success of the various Trump/Farage/Le Pen types. Massive own goal, and too stupid to learn from her mistake.

And Cameron? Have you given up posting and taken up comedy instead? FMD, Cameron will go down in UK history as unquestionably the worst Prime Minister since Nevil Chamberlin. The whole shambolic Brexit debacle was a direct result of Cameron's stupidity, lack of courage, and lack of energy. Cameron makes Rudd look good.

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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:51 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
The worry is that populations in most democratic nations are now so infantilised and ignorant that they are getting politicians who play to that.


Just so.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:46 pm
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Tannin wrote:
Oh dear. One impressive-sounding one who sadly achieved a lot less than expected in the end, and two massive farnarkleups in those three. Merkel's fanatic determination to flood Europe with foreign migrants has been truly disastrous, not just in its direct effects, but also because it was far and away the primary cause of the contempt many people feel for politicians today, and the success of the various Trump/Farage/Le Pen types. Massive own goal, and too stupid to learn from her mistake.

And Cameron? Have you given up posting and taken up comedy instead? FMD, Cameron will go down in UK history as unquestionably the worst Prime Minister since Nevil Chamberlin. The whole shambolic Brexit debacle was a direct result of Cameron's stupidity, lack of courage, and lack of energy. Cameron makes Rudd look good.


Fair challenge, but most politicians make at least one bad mistake along the way, either of omission or commission.

I think the widespread damnation of Cameron for the Brexit debacle is now conventional wisdom, and like most conventional wisdom it's unbalanced and wrong.

Cameron took a political risk because his party was in danger of fracturing, and because the EU had drifted so far from its original mandate that it warranted a referendum as a matter of principle. It was as though Australia had chosen to join ASEAN, and then found, twenty years later, that the majority of its laws were being made in a parliament in Singapore, dedicated to "ever closer union". Cameron did not want to leave the EU, but he put ia referendum commitment in the 2015 Conservative election manifesto having calculated that, firstly, he would not win enough seats to form a government outright and any coalition partner would block it ; and secondly, that if he had to call the referendum, the British people's natural conservatism, bipartisan support and economic interest would not lead them off the Brexit cliff. As we now know, these were wrong assumptions, but politics is about taking calculated risks, and the calculation was a very reasonable one. Moreover, we cannot judge the costs of inaction. In any event, Cameron stabilized the yawning hole in the public finances after 2010, and he always looked at ease in the job, carrying the grudging respect of his party and the broader public.

On Merkel, you are probably right. There was little to be gained from the stupid open invitation to migration, and by seeking to lay off the consequences on other European nations, she greatly increased the fear and sense of disenfranchisement of European public opinion. This probably made the difference in the Brexit vote.

Still, she has been doing the job for many years now, and she looks and sounds like someone who is up to the job most of the time. Maintaining public confidence over such a long period without being a demagogue is an achievement in itself.

Obama achieved much. Extricating the US from the stupid Bush Wars and healing a fractured economy via a string of tough, non ideological decisions, while getting through a universal health care plan amid fierce opposition and generally seeming a dignified and balanced man is a reasonable fist of achievements

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