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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:20 pm
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Bizarrely enough if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons I feel the world would have seen it's 3rd war by now.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:05 pm
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^ Agree, Swoop, but that is only because nukes have been contained by the non-proliferation treaty and therefore restricted to a few sane actors with a lot to lose. This is now breaking down and that should not be allowed to happen through apathy.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:22 pm
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^ David, people will always build the strongest weapons they can in pursuit of power. If you think that the world's greatest democracy should disarm itself and the Irans, Pakistans and NK's of the world would then not pursue them, I think that's a return to the dangerous naïvete of the unilateralism of the 1980s left..

I'd say that your insouciance about allowing states like NK to develop nukes brings us closer to the Armageddon you mention.

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:33 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Mugwump wrote:
^ Agree, Swoop, but that is only because nukes have been contained by the non-proliferation treaty and therefore restricted to a few sane actors with a lot to lose. This is now breaking down and that should not be allowed to happen through apathy.


At the end of the day it all comes down to what the true intentions of the US are.

If it's to simply ramp up the pressure on China to reign in North Korea (assuming they can) to a degree not previously witnessed then sure we can all get behind that.

But if the United States are seriously contemplating striking first and starting a war (which it will be) then I don't see a justification for it.

Quite simply to take military action North Korea will almost certainly lead to them using any nuclear weapons they have.

I'd rather take option B where we continue to use diplomacy, sanctions and Chinese influence to keep them in some sort of check.

Yes it could fail and they still end up with nuclear capable ICBM's but I'd prefer an outcome where it remains only a threat of them using them rather than option A where it's guaranteed.

In reality if the West really wanted to stop the North Korean nuclear program by force it might have been helpful if they did it prior to them actually having some.

Donkeys.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:48 pm
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swoop42 wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
^ Agree, Swoop, but that is only because nukes have been contained by the non-proliferation treaty and therefore restricted to a few sane actors with a lot to lose. This is now breaking down and that should not be allowed to happen through apathy.


At the end of the day it all comes down to what the true intentions of the US are.

If it's to simply ramp up the pressure on China to reign in North Korea (assuming they can) to a degree not previously witnessed then sure we can all get behind that.

But if the United States are seriously contemplating striking first and starting a war (which it will be) then I don't see a justification for it.

Quite simply to take military action North Korea will almost certainly lead to them using any nuclear weapons they have.

I'd rather take option B where we continue to use diplomacy, sanctions and Chinese influence to keep them in some sort of check.

Yes it could fail and they still end up with nuclear capable ICBM's but I'd prefer an outcome where it remains only a threat of them using them rather than option A where it's guaranteed.

In reality if the West really wanted to stop the North Korean nuclear program by force it might have been helpful if they did it prior to them actually having some.

Donkeys.


Nothing to disagree with there, Swoop. But a build up to war looks utterly different to anything you are seeing today. At some point, the US's options will be informed by intelligence on NK's capabilities and we will not be privy to that. but I am heartily pleased to see the US taking the threat seriously, finally. Don't forget that NK's nukes came via Pakistan. Where will NK's nukes end up ? Proliferation begets proliferation, until the likes of IS manage to take over an area within a state that has the bomb.

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Mountains Magpie 



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:12 am
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swoop42 wrote:
Bizarrely enough if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons I feel the world would have seen it's 3rd war by now.


And there I was thinking it started just after the turn of the century Wink Shocked

MM

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Cam Capricorn

Nick's BB Member #166


Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:45 pm
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Whole US Senate called into the Whitehouse to discuss what's about to go down with North Korea.
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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:12 am
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ah, its all a conspiracy..... the fact that Hillary was a crap candidate had no bearing... get her a bike lock and a black mask.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/hillary-clinton-blames-russian-hackers-comey-for-2016-election-loss-20170502-gvxqva.html

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:30 pm
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Whatever the rights or wrongs of what he did, you've gotta agree Comey threw her under the bus. It was astonishing timing and in the end pretty unnecessary, yet it managed to really hurt her credibility in the last week of the campaign and probably swung a large number of votes away from her.

No tears for me on the DNC leaks, though. If the truth hurt, tough cookies.

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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:08 pm
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^ true or not; surely the amount of mainstream media support should have got her over the line, she spent 1.4 Billion Dollars (Trump 957 million) and still couldn't get elected, that is a lousy unpopular candidate that should never have run.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:37 am
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyhLq7Ser5Q

How bizarre, no it's that Government Shocked
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:31 am
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http://www.theage.com.au/world/donald-trump-fires-fbi-director-james-comey-20170509-gw13p0.html

Amazing. I can see a tell all book coming out soon. Shocked
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:48 pm
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Culprit wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/donald-trump-fires-fbi-director-james-comey-20170509-gw13p0.html

Amazing. I can see a tell all book coming out soon. Shocked


People who try and tell all about the Clintons tend to wind up dead.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:53 pm
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Except for conspiracy theorists, who seem to be able to spread their dangerous truths with impunity. Laughing
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:05 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Culprit wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/donald-trump-fires-fbi-director-james-comey-20170509-gw13p0.html

Amazing. I can see a tell all book coming out soon. Shocked


People who try and tell all about the Clintons tend to wind up dead.


Examples, please ? I do not admire the Clintons, but that's a claim that needs some substantiation.

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