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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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Bizarrely enough if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons I feel the world would have seen it's 3rd war by now. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Agree, Swoop, but that is only because nukes have been contained by the non-proliferation treaty and therefore restricted to a few sane actors with a lot to lose. This is now breaking down and that should not be allowed to happen through apathy. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ David, people will always build the strongest weapons they can in pursuit of power. If you think that the world's greatest democracy should disarm itself and the Irans, Pakistans and NK's of the world would then not pursue them, I think that's a return to the dangerous naïvete of the unilateralism of the 1980s left..
I'd say that your insouciance about allowing states like NK to develop nukes brings us closer to the Armageddon you mention. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ Agree, Swoop, but that is only because nukes have been contained by the non-proliferation treaty and therefore restricted to a few sane actors with a lot to lose. This is now breaking down and that should not be allowed to happen through apathy. |
At the end of the day it all comes down to what the true intentions of the US are.
If it's to simply ramp up the pressure on China to reign in North Korea (assuming they can) to a degree not previously witnessed then sure we can all get behind that.
But if the United States are seriously contemplating striking first and starting a war (which it will be) then I don't see a justification for it.
Quite simply to take military action North Korea will almost certainly lead to them using any nuclear weapons they have.
I'd rather take option B where we continue to use diplomacy, sanctions and Chinese influence to keep them in some sort of check.
Yes it could fail and they still end up with nuclear capable ICBM's but I'd prefer an outcome where it remains only a threat of them using them rather than option A where it's guaranteed.
In reality if the West really wanted to stop the North Korean nuclear program by force it might have been helpful if they did it prior to them actually having some.
Donkeys. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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swoop42 wrote: | Mugwump wrote: | ^ Agree, Swoop, but that is only because nukes have been contained by the non-proliferation treaty and therefore restricted to a few sane actors with a lot to lose. This is now breaking down and that should not be allowed to happen through apathy. |
At the end of the day it all comes down to what the true intentions of the US are.
If it's to simply ramp up the pressure on China to reign in North Korea (assuming they can) to a degree not previously witnessed then sure we can all get behind that.
But if the United States are seriously contemplating striking first and starting a war (which it will be) then I don't see a justification for it.
Quite simply to take military action North Korea will almost certainly lead to them using any nuclear weapons they have.
I'd rather take option B where we continue to use diplomacy, sanctions and Chinese influence to keep them in some sort of check.
Yes it could fail and they still end up with nuclear capable ICBM's but I'd prefer an outcome where it remains only a threat of them using them rather than option A where it's guaranteed.
In reality if the West really wanted to stop the North Korean nuclear program by force it might have been helpful if they did it prior to them actually having some.
Donkeys. |
Nothing to disagree with there, Swoop. But a build up to war looks utterly different to anything you are seeing today. At some point, the US's options will be informed by intelligence on NK's capabilities and we will not be privy to that. but I am heartily pleased to see the US taking the threat seriously, finally. Don't forget that NK's nukes came via Pakistan. Where will NK's nukes end up ? Proliferation begets proliferation, until the likes of IS manage to take over an area within a state that has the bomb. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Somewhere between now and then
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swoop42 wrote: | Bizarrely enough if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons I feel the world would have seen it's 3rd war by now. |
And there I was thinking it started just after the turn of the century
MM _________________ Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002 Location: Springvale
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Whole US Senate called into the Whitehouse to discuss what's about to go down with North Korea. _________________ Get back on top. |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Whatever the rights or wrongs of what he did, you've gotta agree Comey threw her under the bus. It was astonishing timing and in the end pretty unnecessary, yet it managed to really hurt her credibility in the last week of the campaign and probably swung a large number of votes away from her.
No tears for me on the DNC leaks, though. If the truth hurt, tough cookies. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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^ true or not; surely the amount of mainstream media support should have got her over the line, she spent 1.4 Billion Dollars (Trump 957 million) and still couldn't get elected, that is a lousy unpopular candidate that should never have run. _________________ Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Culprit wrote: | http://www.theage.com.au/world/donald-trump-fires-fbi-director-james-comey-20170509-gw13p0.html
Amazing. I can see a tell all book coming out soon. |
People who try and tell all about the Clintons tend to wind up dead. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Except for conspiracy theorists, who seem to be able to spread their dangerous truths with impunity. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Wokko wrote: | Culprit wrote: | http://www.theage.com.au/world/donald-trump-fires-fbi-director-james-comey-20170509-gw13p0.html
Amazing. I can see a tell all book coming out soon. |
People who try and tell all about the Clintons tend to wind up dead. |
Examples, please ? I do not admire the Clintons, but that's a claim that needs some substantiation. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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