Gender question
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Should this player have been allowed on the court? |
| Yes |
|
68% |
[ 11 ] |
| No, the physicality is an unfair advantage |
|
31% |
[ 5 ] |
| Any ideas for a third option welcome! |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 16 |
|
| Author |
Message |
The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| King Monkey wrote: | I'm probably leaning to the side of saying she can't play in the female comp (without wanting to be mean about it at all).
I think in this specific case, the fact there are mixed competitions available on the same night might mean all parties could probably compromise and she could play as a female in the make-up of a mixed team???? |
I think there would need to be some rules put in place so everyone knows what's going to happen should they come across this situation. Some sports have straight up banned some athletes without coming up with rules and regulations some maybe have come up with some.
I believe the Olympics have made a rule regarding this as being four years living as their new gender post-op before they're allowed to compete in the games as their new gender.
I suppose in some smaller leagues they may consider demanding she ploy in a mixed league and team, unless they have decided on a rule one way or another.
Probably something some may need to discuss in some sports, and sports league to get a definitive answer on.
_________________
Ðavâgé
https://www.facebook.com/davehardingphotography
https://www.facebook.com/Davage |
|
|
|
 |
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| King Monkey wrote: | "Discriminatory" is the wrong word here. And it's unhelpful to all to put labels on the situation.
There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the fence. |
That may be so, but it's still discriminatory. Pretty much the dictionary definition of the word. The only question here is whether or not the discrimination would be justified, and I strongly believe it wouldn't be.
The only valid reason you could have for not letting her play in the women's comp is that you don't think she's a 'real' woman. But if she is legally and biologically a woman, then what right could you possibly have to assert that?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^Yeah, both sides need to realise there are issues to be worked through.
And it's really unfair to put the onus on someone who volunteers to run a Wednesday night netball comp!!!!!!!
EDIT: the arrow was pointing at Proto's post. 
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight."
Last edited by King Monkey on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I don't think so. Transsexuals are ordinary people who participate in all areas of society, and will turn up in all sorts of situations, like workplaces, pubs, family get-togethers and Wednesday night netball comps. Ordinary people need to know how to deal with these situations. If they don't know how to, they have to learn. IMHO.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | "Discriminatory" is the wrong word here. And it's unhelpful to all to put labels on the situation.
There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the fence. |
That may be so, but it's still discriminatory. Pretty much the dictionary definition of the word. The only question here is whether or not the discrimination would be justified, and I strongly believe it wouldn't be. |
Nah sorry, can't accept that.
Whilst there is no doubt she identifies as a woman, feels like a woman, lives like a woman, and is having/has had treatment to make her body fall into line as well - the harsh but true reality is that she was born a man physically, and there is a little more to consider when discussing the physical side of things in relation to sport.
It's a sporting contest where physical differences are crucial. Not a job interview.
Again, I'm not strongly arguing she shouldn't play. I think there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the fence.
But I reject that it would be discrimination if it happened to go against her.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
|
|
|
|
The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Unless she is breaking any rules of the sport, there's really nothing right now stopping her playing. Unless of course she's not yet had an operation to make herself a woman, then there's an entirely different argument.
But let's say she's become a woman, unless the league says no, then there's no reason she shouldn't be allowed to play. Despite the fact she has an advantage on the other players, if no rules are broken it's allowed.
I mean it may not be fair that she's bigger and stronger than the rest, but if she is the right gender (regardless of sex change) and right age then there's not much that can be done unless there is a rule to prevent transgendered athletes playing.
But should she still actually be a male only dressed as a girl there is cause to have the person banned.
_________________
Ðavâgé
https://www.facebook.com/davehardingphotography
https://www.facebook.com/Davage |
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | I don't think so. Transsexuals are ordinary people who participate in all areas of society, and will turn up in all sorts of situations, like workplaces, pubs, family get-togethers and Wednesday night netball comps. Ordinary people need to know how to deal with these situations. If they don't know how to, they have to learn. IMHO. |
But that's only if said ordinary people come up with an outcome you agree with, right??
This is different than a family get-together, a pub, or a workplace.
This is a situation where men and women are already segregated due to each others' physical make-up.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| King Monkey wrote: | | David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | "Discriminatory" is the wrong word here. And it's unhelpful to all to put labels on the situation.
There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the fence. |
That may be so, but it's still discriminatory. Pretty much the dictionary definition of the word. The only question here is whether or not the discrimination would be justified, and I strongly believe it wouldn't be. |
Nah sorry, can't accept that.
Whilst there is no doubt she identifies as a woman, feels like a woman, lives like a woman, and is having/has had treatment to make her body fall into line as well - the harsh but true reality is that she was born a man physically, and there is a little more to consider when discussing the physical side of things in relation to sport.
It's a sporting contest where physical differences are crucial. Not a job interview.
Again, I'm not strongly arguing she shouldn't play. I think there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the fence.
But I reject that it would be discrimination if it happened to go against her. |
This is my point exactly.
As I said, several times, I wasn't upset, but as KM said, I was just surprised to be confronted with the situation. as coach, I am naturally concerned about any effect on my kids.
And yes, I have definitely softened my stance, however, I reserve my feelings due to also considering it possible to have a larger, stronger, and yes, more talented, transgender come along. The ladies on the court, all the ladies on the court, have a right to play the game in a safe and fair environment.
One thing I will say, yes I should have referred to her as her, and not him.
For that I apologise.
The rules are the rules, and the rule is she can play. I'm hardly going to start world war three over it, but gees if you never question a rule, a law, well?
As for the Olympics, no definitely not fair. What is the world record for the 100 metres for a man, versus that for a woman? 9.58 for a man, 10.49 for a woman. The men's final is over before the first woman crosses the line.
The highest high jump ever? 2.45 versus 2.09.
No of course your not going to change gender just to play sport. But there is nothing that can be done about the physicality differences. The same ones, as pointed out by KM, that we do use to segregate sport already.
ThankYOU king Monkey, I appreciate your comments.
David and Proto as usual, able to discuss a topic without resorting to cheap shots, or personal attacks.
And for me, this subject is closed. On ANY thread!
Cheers
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
|
|
|
|
|
Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| I removed some of the posts that referred to a forum member as a bigot and a red neck. This is unacceptable even by VPT standards. Please keep on topic. |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Aren't grades usually enough to deal with major physical differences?
If competitive community sport is all about the contest, what's the problem if this woman is contributing to the contest as much or as little as everyone else?
Gawd, imagine the petty gossip about that courts that week! I certainly hope you all regroup and welcome her with open arms as you would anyone else. All's well that ends well, so make it happen for her.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Member 7167 wrote: | | I removed some of the posts that referred to a forum member as a bigot and a red neck. This is unacceptable even by VPT standards. Please keep on topic. |
Why remove the Pope post? |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Thank you for your request. Chat amongst yourselves. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Not sure what you allowed to copy and paste, so I've pasted the link to the whole page, about half way down page 7 Kirsti explains how the laws for sport works, and through the thread explains changes to her body from treatment. Admittedly I hesitated about bringing this thread back from the dead, not because of my questioning or reasoning, but just the crap it caused. Anyhow, I found this really interesting, and certainly, changes a lot of the opinions I have held. Really well explained, cheers
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ama-transgender-player-kirsti-miller.1105520/page-7
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
