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| How many Syrian refugees should Australia take? |
| None |
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52% |
[ 21 ] |
| A few hundred |
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2% |
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| A few thousand |
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5% |
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| Over ten thousand |
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5% |
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| As many as possible |
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35% |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | 49% isn't a majority, but it's certainly uncomfortably close to one. Very dispiriting.
(It's funny how democracy works, though, sometimes a majority of Australians support euthanasia and likely capital punishment too, yet those issues aren't even on the table for discussion. And who knows what the figures would be for questions that pollsters haven't thought to ask like "should child molesters be tortured?" and "should the government stop taxing people?") |
You got a cite for those stats?
Euthanasia is a bit like the republic debate, the majority might support it in principle but disagree on how it would work. If you had a poll on euthanasia and asked the question "Do you think the government should have the right to force you to prolong your life and therefore make you suffer in pain against your will?" you'd get a 100% NO vote and therefore a 100% vote for euthanasia. |
Euthanasia seems to have around 70% support:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-16/survey-shows-australian-support-for-legalised-euthanasia/4376524
Capital punishment seems to vary a bit more depending on how the question is phrased or which crimes are highlighted, but the most recent poll showed 52% support.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5814-death-penalty-for-terrorist-acts-september-19-2014-201409190533
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I reckon the 70% figure us about right. I posted a pro right to choose on Facebook and got an angry emoticon and a note from a church goer about it. I replied I don't agree, after watching my mother suffer, she should have been able to choose to go. She replied that holding her mothers hand in her mothers tube of need at the no was a pleasure, or something like that. Wish I'd had the guts to post that I would not put my children though watching me suffer like that.
No one should have to suffer a painful death when death is enevitable and close.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | 49% isn't a majority, but it's certainly uncomfortably close to one. Very dispiriting.
(It's funny how democracy works, though, sometimes a majority of Australians support euthanasia and likely capital punishment too, yet those issues aren't even on the table for discussion. And who knows what the figures would be for questions that pollsters haven't thought to ask like "should child molesters be tortured?" and "should the government stop taxing people?") |
You got a cite for those stats?
Euthanasia is a bit like the republic debate, the majority might support it in principle but disagree on how it would work. If you had a poll on euthanasia and asked the question "Do you think the government should have the right to force you to prolong your life and therefore make you suffer in pain against your will?" you'd get a 100% NO vote and therefore a 100% vote for euthanasia. |
Euthanasia seems to have around 70% support:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-16/survey-shows-australian-support-for-legalised-euthanasia/4376524
Capital punishment seems to vary a bit more depending on how the question is phrased or which crimes are highlighted, but the most recent poll showed 52% support.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5814-death-penalty-for-terrorist-acts-september-19-2014-201409190533 |
The euthanasia data is 4 years old.
The death penalty data is 2 years old and asks specifically about the death penalty for terrorist acts which kill people. In that case it scores high 40 to low 50 as a yes, whereas past polls asking about the death penalty for murder scored around 20% yes.
Terrorism was fairly front of mind then, with that kid stabbing 2 people in Endeavor hills not long before the poll. The Man Monis attach in Sydney happened only a few months later followed by the attack on the french satirical magazine in early 2015.
People moods get shaped by what's happening around them. Ask people in Sweden if they're happy with all the migrants coming in and you'll get a very different response to a few years ago.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Looking into someone's previous work and seeing it is incredibly biased is hardly an ad hom. Yes, I profiled the author based on their name and further investigation proved me right. Funny how that works. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | 49% isn't a majority, but it's certainly uncomfortably close to one. Very dispiriting.
(It's funny how democracy works, though, sometimes a majority of Australians support euthanasia and likely capital punishment too, yet those issues aren't even on the table for discussion. And who knows what the figures would be for questions that pollsters haven't thought to ask like "should child molesters be tortured?" and "should the government stop taxing people?") |
You got a cite for those stats?
Euthanasia is a bit like the republic debate, the majority might support it in principle but disagree on how it would work. If you had a poll on euthanasia and asked the question "Do you think the government should have the right to force you to prolong your life and therefore make you suffer in pain against your will?" you'd get a 100% NO vote and therefore a 100% vote for euthanasia. |
Euthanasia seems to have around 70% support:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-16/survey-shows-australian-support-for-legalised-euthanasia/4376524
Capital punishment seems to vary a bit more depending on how the question is phrased or which crimes are highlighted, but the most recent poll showed 52% support.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5814-death-penalty-for-terrorist-acts-september-19-2014-201409190533 |
The euthanasia data is 4 years old.
The death penalty data is 2 years old and asks specifically about the death penalty for terrorist acts which kill people. In that case it scores high 40 to low 50 as a yes, whereas past polls asking about the death penalty for murder scored around 20% yes.
Terrorism was fairly front of mind then, with that kid stabbing 2 people in Endeavor hills not long before the poll. The Man Monis attach in Sydney happened only a few months later followed by the attack on the french satirical magazine in early 2015.
People moods get shaped by what's happening around them. Ask people in Sweden if they're happy with all the migrants coming in and you'll get a very different response to a few years ago. |
I'd say terrorism is more in people's minds now than it was two years ago. It's a fair point about people's reactions changing based on the times, and same-sex marriage is one where change in public opinion has been relatively rapid, but I suspect an issue like euthanasia would show fairly little movement as it's one of those issues that always seems to be on the backburner as opposed to something that attracts huge bursts of media coverage.
The methodology of the Roy Morgan poll was a little dodgy in some ways, but I understand why they phrased it that way. I have no doubt that if you ask people a question like "do you believe in the death penalty for serial child molesters?" you'll get a much higher affirmative response than if you simply ask "do you believe in the death penalty?". And yet, it's not like anyone's suggesting that petty thieves be executed; the whole point of the death penalty is that it's only reserved for the most abhorrent crimes (like, for instance, large-scale terrorist attacks). Anyway, that figure was roughly what I would have expected.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Wokko wrote: | | Looking into someone's previous work and seeing it is incredibly biased is hardly an ad hom. Yes, I profiled the author based on their name and further investigation proved me right. Funny how that works. |
I think that's called confirmation bias. You had an existing prejudice (which is, what exactly? An Arabic person is unable to hold a balanced opinion on issues that may affect them?) and in this case the results seemed to confirm it.
It's still ad hominem, either way, because an author's bias or lack thereof doesn't have anything to do with the content of what they're saying. Everyone has biases of some kind or other. You haven't actually provided a counter-argument to anything in that article.
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| think positive wrote: | I reckon the 70% figure us about right. I posted a pro right to choose on Facebook and got an angry emoticon and a note from a church goer about it. I replied I don't agree, after watching my mother suffer, she should have been able to choose to go. She replied that holding her mothers hand in her mothers tube of need at the no was a pleasure, or something like that. Wish I'd had the guts to post that I would not put my children though watching me suffer like that.
No one should have to suffer a painful death when death is enevitable and close. |
Euthanasia is a difficult concept for it is hijacked by those who want to frame it as " sanctioned killing" - it is most certainly not and those who do this IMHO are lacking understanding, compassion and quite frankly are selfish!
Letting someone we love go is hard and I have no evidence per se except for many years experience but " giving" people to permission to go is brave.
Holding the hand of a loved one whilst prolonging their suffering may well make the hand holder feel good and righteous but it is again IMO cruel and selfish.
Percentage that support hmmm? I would say if I polled those who have found themselves actually in such a position or know of someone in such a position it would probably be 90 odd %. Hard core God botherers are the exception - they are just fcked in the head!!!
Andrew Denton's recent campaign to have euthanasia recognised and regulated was spot on - evidence and emotion presented rationally but with compassion and empathy. It didn't get the traction it should have - maybe it's one of those things that we pay little attention to until it is in our face personally.
I wish we as a society would have a real conversation 
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βThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.β |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Yeah it was Andrew Dentons thing I posted.
I always thought if it were me, I'd hang on for that last second in time with my children, and then I felt what it's like to watch someone you love die....I would not do that to them, and also, I would not want to suffer the loss of dignity, the fear, the anger, the hurt my mum did. I've discussed it with people and they look at me in horror when I say 'ifShe was a dog, I would have put her down a year before". But they don't know how much my dogs mean to me. Letting go of love for the other persons sake, as we do for our pets, it's hard, but it's the right thing to do.
My reply to the church people when they rant against right to die, gay marriage etc is always the same. My Gods a nicer God, he ain't so vindictive!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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FWIW and i'm sure I've said it before, I'm for euthanasia. I have no intention of dying slowly in a nursing home or palliative care ward. I've told my daughter, if I'm too far gone to be able to cap myself then FFS put the pillow on my face.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | FWIW and i'm sure I've said it before, I'm for euthanasia. I have no intention of dying slowly in a nursing home or palliative care ward. I've told my daughter, if I'm too far gone to be able to cap myself* then FFS put the pillow on my face. |
*Excluding periods of willful, chemically-induced vegetation.
So, that's how it feels to save a life!
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Would you like to have intention of dying in a nursing home or palliative care ward? |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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Did anyone watch the story on A Current Affair the other night? Apparently they are housing refugees in retirement homes, free of charge.
My dad was absolutely filthy about how 'these bludgers are given everything'. When my mum had to go into a home after her dementia got too hard to manage, they had to sell their nest egg (an investment property) at a fire sale price to pay a $100K bond and the place took 90% of her aged pension each fortnight. This was after they had paid taxes their whole working lives. He was not happy.
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How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Didn't see it but not surprised.
It's a disgrace.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Bucks5 wrote: | Did anyone watch the story on A Current Affair the other night? Apparently they are housing refugees in retirement homes, free of charge.
My dad was absolutely filthy about how 'these bludgers are given everything'. When my mum had to go into a home after her dementia got too hard to manage, they had to sell their nest egg (an investment property) at a fire sale price to pay a $100K bond and the place took 90% of her aged pension each fortnight. This was after they had paid taxes their whole working lives. He was not happy. |
ACA. 
Actually, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. These 'bludgers' are doing it a lot tougher than most people who watch these shows and are hardly getting a free ride. (Though if some are given crisis accommodation for a short period of time, I would hardly begrudge them it, given the circumstances.)
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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