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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Post subject: Re: Why are our mids so ordinary? |  |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Since Grundy has improved over the past couple of months, most weeks we are getting enough centre taps, but our midfielders are nevertheless getting smashed out of the centre, especially in the first quarters of games. Given we've got plenty of supposed class in our first choice mids in Pendles, Treloar, Adams and Sidey, I just wonder what the problem is. Our second stringers in Greenwood and Crisp are OK, but imo Greenwood has never really performed to the level expected consistently enough. At best, he's a journeyman. Crisp can be a beauty, but he's more of an outside player. What we need, imo, is a big bodied beast to smash through packs get the ball out to the class of Pendles, Treloar and Sidey. I don't know if he's good enough yet, but Wills seems to be good at doing this in the VFL, so I reckon it's time he was given a few weeks in the seniors and used in the centre square. At present, Adams is our only A grade in and under midfielder and he's almost a midget. He needs a bigger, stronger body alongside him to physically impose himself on the game, in the centre where it counts. |
Swallow (182cm) and Cunnington (185) are hardly giants. They just have mature seasoned bodies. Give the kids some time.
And as you've mentioned, we have recruited Wills and Sier as bigger inside mids. Hopefully they both have fantastic pre-seasons and hit 2017 full on.
Last edited by jackcass on Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| inxs88 wrote: | correct. Now brutes in the midfield to absorb that first clash of big bodies. If you look at the good sides they all have 1-2 of these in the guts vs our none:
* Carlton: Cripps (21 years, 39 games)
* Essendon: Jobe Watson (31. 200), Heppell (24, 106)
* Bulldogs: Bontompelli (20, 54)
* North: Ziebell (25, 141), Swallow (29, 202)
* Swans: JPK (28, 174) and Mitchell (23, 56)
* Hawks: Hodge (32, 279) and Mitchell (33, 300)
* Tigers: Cotchin (26, 168) and Martin (25, 148)
* Port: Boak (27, 194)
* Geelong: Danger (26, 171) and Selwood (28, 221)
* Dees: Nathan Jones (28, 218)
* Feo: Fyfe (24, 117) and Mundy (31, 246)
* Eagles: Priddis (31, 213)
* Saints: Dunstan (21, 51) and Ross (23, 54) |
Seriously? Can you get any sloppier or lazy with your attempts to post negativity about Collingwood?
Most of the players you've listed are mature established senior players. Go back and do some comparisons about how they were performing at the same age as some of our kids. Bont and Cripps are the only genuine comparisons you've managed to list, maybe Fyfe but even he's in his 7th senior season. Have a look at how good his 1st few were.
And Dunstan and Ross fit into this discussion? Really? Yet Stevens doesn't get a crack? Or Thompson at the Crows?
By comparison:
Treloar 23, 96
Adams 22, 72
De Goey 20, 32
Crisp 22, 57 |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Re: Why are our mids so ordinary? | |
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| jackcass wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | Since Grundy has improved over the past couple of months, most weeks we are getting enough centre taps, but our midfielders are nevertheless getting smashed out of the centre, especially in the first quarters of games. Given we've got plenty of supposed class in our first choice mids in Pendles, Treloar, Adams and Sidey, I just wonder what the problem is. Our second stringers in Greenwood and Crisp are OK, but imo Greenwood has never really performed to the level expected consistently enough. At best, he's a journeyman. Crisp can be a beauty, but he's more of an outside player. What we need, imo, is a big bodied beast to smash through packs get the ball out to the class of Pendles, Treloar and Sidey. I don't know if he's good enough yet, but Wills seems to be good at doing this in the VFL, so I reckon it's time he was given a few weeks in the seniors and used in the centre square. At present, Adams is our only A grade in and under midfielder and he's almost a midget. He needs a bigger, stronger body alongside him to physically impose himself on the game, in the centre where it counts. |
Swallow (182cm) and Cunnington (185) are hardly giants. They just have mature seasoned bodies. Give the kids some time.
And as you've mentioned, we have recruited Wills and Sier as bigger inside mids. Hopefully they both have fantastic pre-seasons and hit 2017 full on. |
All we can do is live in hope. |
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Monco Matt 
Do it to THEM before THEY do it to YOU
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Sittin, Drinkin, Reloadin & Waitin
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1. Can't cover the ground with leg speed. Reason = You have it or you don't.
2. Can't hold structure so get pulled out of position. Reason = Concentration, stop ball watching. Leadership issues.
3. Decision making with ball in hand is poor. Reason = Lack of experience and knowledge.
4. Kicking skill is not close enough to elite. Reason = See #1.
5. Forward line pressure non-existent, pressure moves up field to mids too quickly. Reason = Forwards are slow, not desperate enough.
6. Need a more even contribution. We have Pendles, Sidey, Treloar & Adams as our consistent ball movers, we need to double this list.
_________________
RED "BABY" CAVANAUGH: Didn't hear what the bet was.
MONCO: Your life. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Monco Matt wrote: | 1. Can't cover the ground with leg speed. Reason = You have it or you don't.
2. Can't hold structure so get pulled out of position. Reason = Concentration, stop ball watching. Leadership issues.
3. Decision making with ball in hand is poor. Reason = Lack of experience and knowledge.
4. Kicking skill is not close enough to elite. Reason = See #1.
5. Forward line pressure non-existent, pressure moves up field to mids too quickly. Reason = Forwards are slow, not desperate enough.
6. Need a more even contribution. We have Pendles, Sidey, Treloar & Adams as our consistent ball movers, we need to double this list. |
Can't argue with that. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Monco Matt wrote: | 1. Can't cover the ground with leg speed. Reason = You have it or you don't.
2. Can't hold structure so get pulled out of position. Reason = Concentration, stop ball watching. Leadership issues.
3. Decision making with ball in hand is poor. Reason = Lack of experience and knowledge.
4. Kicking skill is not close enough to elite. Reason = See #1.
5. Forward line pressure non-existent, pressure moves up field to mids too quickly. Reason = Forwards are slow, not desperate enough.
6. Need a more even contribution. We have Pendles, Sidey, Treloar & Adams as our consistent ball movers, we need to double this list. |
Can't argue with that. |
I can. Watch the first quarters of Melbourne, Adelaide, GWS and Norf again. It's mainly the ruck, it's only slightly the mids (though point 2 is a bit of a problem). When we halve a ruck contest we tend to halve the clearances, which is what we should expect vs a good side.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| jackcass wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | correct. No brutes in the midfield to absorb that first clash of big bodies. If you look at the good sides they all have 1-2 of these in the guts vs our none:
* Carlton: Cripps (21 years, 39 games)
* Essendon: Jobe Watson (31. 200), Heppell (24, 106)
* Bulldogs: Bontompelli (20, 54)
* North: Ziebell (25, 141), Swallow (29, 202)
* Swans: JPK (28, 174) and Mitchell (23, 56)
* Hawks: Hodge (32, 279) and Mitchell (33, 300)
* Tigers: Cotchin (26, 168) and Martin (25, 148)
* Port: Boak (27, 194)
* Geelong: Danger (26, 171) and Selwood (28, 221)
* Dees: Nathan Jones (28, 218)
* Feo: Fyfe (24, 117) and Mundy (31, 246)
* Eagles: Priddis (31, 213)
* Saints: Dunstan (21, 51) and Ross (23, 54) |
Seriously? Can you get any sloppier or lazy with your attempts to post negativity about Collingwood?
Most of the players you've listed are mature established senior players. Go back and do some comparisons about how they were performing at the same age as some of our kids. Bont and Cripps are the only genuine comparisons you've managed to list, maybe Fyfe but even he's in his 7th senior season. Have a look at how good his 1st few were.
And Dunstan and Ross fit into this discussion? Really? Yet Stevens doesn't get a crack? Or Thompson at the Crows?
By comparison:
Treloar 23, 96
Adams 22, 72
De Goey 20, 32
Crisp 22, 57 |
Thanks for another term of endearment Jackcass. I know your a Pies player sycophant and if you had it your way, you would have a Primary list of 85 and still have luminaries such as Ukovic, D Roach, Jason Wild and Luke Godden pushing for senior selection.
That aside the gist of my reply to why is our midfield area so ordinary wasn't a slight on Treloar, Pendles and Adams etc but more a commentary on the lack of a big bodied mid fielder (s) like other clubs have. Not a stark criticism but more a reality of the youth in our list profile.
Apologies for only quoting 18 players from other clubs NOT 30+ like you implied!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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