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Post match. Pies down to Crows. All comments please.

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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:28 am
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themonk wrote:
doriswilgus wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
Culprit wrote:
Lost the game in the first quarter and played catch up after that. The team had a crack and whilst I am annoyed we lost I am not disappointed. One point raised last night was that we have only 5 players that have played all year and that is very clear in our game play. Let's bounce back and knock off the Roos. Razz


Yeah, I agree. The only thing that worried me last night was that, without Fasolo, we don't have a single player on our list capable of grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and turning it in our favour. We lack a Dangerfield, a Rioli or an Eddie Betts. Our side plugged away all night, but we seem to be lacking the X factor or spark that can win a game when it's hard and tight. Even our best player and captain Pendles, rarely imposes himself on a game to win it for us, rather he is an accumulator and a link player throughout the game. Swan used to win games for us, and sometimes Elliott would too, but who knows whether either of them will ever play for us again?


I was thinking the same exact thing after the game last night.I think we have the makings of a pretty decent side,but it's not all there yet.We have the cake,but there's no icing on it at the moment.

We lack players with the x factor,players who can turn the game with one brilliant goal.If you take Eddie Betts out of their team last night and put him in ours,then we probably win the game.We're just lacking that sort of brilliance in the team,and it's really hurting us at the moment.


Our x factor players are Elliot, Fasolo & Swan Sad


Yep, this. It's not like we haven't tried to recruit a few others either, Broomhead and Crocker and Phillips for example.
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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:31 am
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Raw Hammer wrote:
Unfortunately, and I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the 2014 season during the members' forum, I asked Buckley directly to his face in front of the audience about our lack of class up forward since the departures of Medhurst, Leon and Didak, a player that can turn or own a game through sheer brilliance, and he was adamant that role players like Blair and Goldsack are more than capable. That's when he lost me. He thinks hard work and pressure wins games...he doesn't care much for x-factor game-changers who can make something out of nothing. It is why we are so Beige. Sigh...


Maybe it's about interpretation. They are capable. But that's their ceiling. I'm sure he'd love to have a fit and healthy Didak, Krakouer, Davis, Medhurst or Dick type roaming the F50. We don't have them so we have to rely on capable.
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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:38 am
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Cam wrote:
Pressers are like Parent-Teacher meetings. You only show a small glimpse of what teaching is actually going on behind the scenes. Earlier on in the season our gameplan appeared broken because players were not running hard enough both ways, to the correct spacing positions in regards to their opposition and were getting torched [like they did in the first Q against the Crows] because their space/man balance was too heavily weighed towards space and they weren't close enough to their man [eg Oxley] nor running off at the correct times [eg Frost].

The intercepting zone that all clubs use relies on you being close enough for a spoil but also being able to quickly assess when the ball is coming in where its going to land and getting there first. As familiarity with that, tweaks to it, stability of personnel, improved knowledge of teammates has happened we have been more able to use our skill on the contest as an excuse, rather than workrate. Adelaide out skilled us, whereas earlier in the season the Saints, Dees and Blues outworked us.

One thing that has really improved this season is our ball movement by hand. We look to have modelled that on the Geelong Kennett Curse years. We play exciting footy but yes, miss Jamie Elliott's creativity most of all. Crocker might be a solid option going forward but he's probably not Didak/Leon gamebreaking quality.


Well said Cam.
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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:43 am
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3rd degree wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Unfortunately, and I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the 2014 season during the members' forum, I asked Buckley directly to his face in front of the audience about our lack of class up forward since the departures of Medhurst, Leon and Didak, a player that can turn or own a game through sheer brilliance, and he was adamant that role players like Blair and Goldsack are more than capable. That's when he lost me. He thinks hard work and pressure wins games...he doesn't care much for x-factor game-changers who can make something out of nothing. It is why we are so Beige. Sigh...



a good point , i hate to say it but melbourne did well getting Gartlett for nothing , he does have that x factor and crumbing ability. The crows were smart nabbing Betts, he was difference saturday night.


I always worry about the Garlett types, too flashy and generally go missing come finals. Betts or Krakouer are better examples because you can't question their work rate. Put in every game and generally save their best for big games.
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Raw Hammer 



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:14 am
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jackcass wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Unfortunately, and I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the 2014 season during the members' forum, I asked Buckley directly to his face in front of the audience about our lack of class up forward since the departures of Medhurst, Leon and Didak, a player that can turn or own a game through sheer brilliance, and he was adamant that role players like Blair and Goldsack are more than capable. That's when he lost me. He thinks hard work and pressure wins games...he doesn't care much for x-factor game-changers who can make something out of nothing. It is why we are so Beige. Sigh...


Maybe it's about interpretation. They are capable. But that's their ceiling. I'm sure he'd love to have a fit and healthy Didak, Krakouer, Davis, Medhurst or Dick type roaming the F50. We don't have them so we have to rely on capable.


It's more our (Buck's) lack of want to draft these types of players.

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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:38 pm
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Raw Hammer wrote:
jackcass wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Unfortunately, and I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the 2014 season during the members' forum, I asked Buckley directly to his face in front of the audience about our lack of class up forward since the departures of Medhurst, Leon and Didak, a player that can turn or own a game through sheer brilliance, and he was adamant that role players like Blair and Goldsack are more than capable. That's when he lost me. He thinks hard work and pressure wins games...he doesn't care much for x-factor game-changers who can make something out of nothing. It is why we are so Beige. Sigh...


Maybe it's about interpretation. They are capable. But that's their ceiling. I'm sure he'd love to have a fit and healthy Didak, Krakouer, Davis, Medhurst or Dick type roaming the F50. We don't have them so we have to rely on capable.


It's more our (Buck's) lack of want to draft these types of players.


I'd say that's more about Hine than Bucks, and yes, he definitely shows a tendency toward certain types but equally he has recruited Dick and Krakouer and Elliott and Fasolo and Broomhead and Kennedy. I think he'll always go for who he sees as the "best" option.
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BucksIsFutureCoach 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:00 pm
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jackcass wrote:
3rd degree wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Unfortunately, and I sound like a broken record, but at the end of the 2014 season during the members' forum, I asked Buckley directly to his face in front of the audience about our lack of class up forward since the departures of Medhurst, Leon and Didak, a player that can turn or own a game through sheer brilliance, and he was adamant that role players like Blair and Goldsack are more than capable. That's when he lost me. He thinks hard work and pressure wins games...he doesn't care much for x-factor game-changers who can make something out of nothing. It is why we are so Beige. Sigh...



a good point , i hate to say it but melbourne did well getting Gartlett for nothing , he does have that x factor and crumbing ability. The crows were smart nabbing Betts, he was difference saturday night.


I always worry about the Garlett types, too flashy and generally go missing come finals. Betts or Krakouer are better examples because you can't question their work rate. Put in every game and generally save their best for big games.

I watched the Melbourne - St Kilda game yesterday. Garlett didn't actually do very much. Also did anyone see the pictures of Yarran returning to Richmond training midweek. He's grossly out of condition. We should be thankful we didn't recruit either player. Eddie Betts was always the Carlton player out of the trio who had the most value. I watched Betts at a Carlton preseason game about 4 years ago. He always gives 100 per cent. Those are the players you need to recruit. For all the criticism Blair receives, at least he gives 100 per cent.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:22 pm
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jackcass wrote:
Cam wrote:
Pressers are like Parent-Teacher meetings. You only show a small glimpse of what teaching is actually going on behind the scenes. Earlier on in the season our gameplan appeared broken because players were not running hard enough both ways, to the correct spacing positions in regards to their opposition and were getting torched [like they did in the first Q against the Crows] because their space/man balance was too heavily weighed towards space and they weren't close enough to their man [eg Oxley] nor running off at the correct times [eg Frost].

The intercepting zone that all clubs use relies on you being close enough for a spoil but also being able to quickly assess when the ball is coming in where its going to land and getting there first. As familiarity with that, tweaks to it, stability of personnel, improved knowledge of teammates has happened we have been more able to use our skill on the contest as an excuse, rather than workrate. Adelaide out skilled us, whereas earlier in the season the Saints, Dees and Blues outworked us.

One thing that has really improved this season is our ball movement by hand. We look to have modelled that on the Geelong Kennett Curse years. We play exciting footy but yes, miss Jamie Elliott's creativity most of all. Crocker might be a solid option going forward but he's probably not Didak/Leon gamebreaking quality.


Well said Cam.


Indeed, written like a grown-up : acknowledging the multi-faceted nature of the issues and problems, recognising where and why things have improved and will continue to do so.

The coach bears some of the responsibility for our crappiness early in the season, so do the players, so do injuries, so does inexperience. That ability to think and perceive more than one dimension is intelligent posting. Well done, Cam.

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