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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | Oppositions used to offer an alternative policy platform and policy. This ended after John Hewson's Fightback and to a lesser extent Mark Latham. Hewson laid out for the electorate in specific detail his alternative and subsequently lost an election that he had no right to lose.
Since then oppositions would rather tear down the Government's agenda and try and sway the electorate through slogans and psychology. I still have an intense interest in politics but I'm starting to question that, I haven't paid any attention to the current Australian election, I despise both Turnbull and Shorten, Labor and Liberal and feel that neither party; the only two that might form Government, represent me at all. |
I thought this is a State Government thread. Your first sentence or two covered that.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Article in today's Hun written by Jack Rush QC
| Quote: | THERE was a particular moment in the 2009 bushfires royal commission that impacted every person that was present to hear the compelling evidence.
The witness was the captain of the Arthurs Creek CFA brigade, David McGahy.
His volunteer members, like so many others, had experienced the worst of the Black Saturday fires and the following days of devastation.
I never cease to be amazed to this day at the absolute bravery and professionalism of the men and women of my brigade, he said.
There were people in charge of trucks that had no idea they were from Strathewen whether their houses were there, they had no idea if their families were alive, and they continued to do what was requested of them.
They stayed on the line and helped other people. My admiration for the bravery, as I said, of the members of my brigade knows no bounds.
The comments describe the commitment, dedication and sacrifice of volunteer brigades across the state of the 60,000 men and women who year after year are called upon to make such sacrifices to their communities.
Service of this nature brings a special camaraderie and pride. For so many the CFA is like family.
And in country Victoria the local CFA brigade is often the heart of the community, the primary reason for bringing family, friends and neighbours together. I would have thought this culture, the volunteer ethic, is worth protecting and nurturing.
On a practical note, the royal commission report estimated, in 2010, that CFA volunteers contributed at least $840 million to the Victorian community.
That number, in 2016, would equate to a sum well in excess of $1 billion; the reality is, I think, the contribution is very much more.
The CFA also has, by comparison with the number of volunteers, a small number around 800 career firefighters who support volunteers across the state and work with volunteers in approximately 30 integrated fire stations.
My experience through the royal commission was that career firefighters without exception had the utmost respect for the volunteers.
They supported the volunteers and the key elements that make the CFA a highly effective firefighting organisation: rapid response, surge capacity, local knowledge. All matters that are entirely dependent on volunteers.
As the Country Fire Authority Act states, the CFA is first and foremost a volunteer organisation (CFA Act Section 6F).
Why has this state lost a brave emergency services minister? Why has the board of the CFA been sacked?
Why has an outstanding CEO of the CFA resigned?
All this has happened because these people took their responsibilities under the CFA Act seriously.
The Act states that the Authority has a responsibility to develop policy and organisational arrangements that encourage, maintain and strengthen the capacity of volunteer officers and members to provide the Authoritys services (CFA Act Section 6I).
The enterprise bargaining agreement, central to the sackings, is contrary to the CFA Act.
It provides unprecedented powers within the CFA to the United Firefighters Union.
The EBA undermines the role and independence of volunteers.
Those sacked or resigning had no choice but to oppose the EBA.
Premier (Daniel) Andrews states there will be no delivery of cultural change, reform or improvement while this spiteful EBA dispute continues.
On my analysis there has been nothing spiteful from the volunteers.
They do not oppose the wages or conditions of firefighters. They do, strongly, oppose UFU vetoes and control over the CFA.
Yes, the EBA will deliver massive cultural reform.
It is the powers of veto ceded to the UFU under the EBA that will change the CFA.
There is nothing that has changed: the impact of the EBA on CFA management and control and the ethic of volunteerism remains outrageous.
There are issues of change concerning the CFA that should be considered, but forcing through the EBA has nothing to do with genuine change. In fact the EBA will make that process even more difficult.
The government-imposed remedy is to hand-pick five new members for the CFA board. The apparent criteria for membership of the new board is an indication to the minister that the EBA will be passed by board resolution.
The four volunteer representatives on the CFA board have not been appointed. It is an egregious way to resolve a dispute.
How the new board could sign on to this EBA when the board is required to maintain and strengthen the capacity of volunteer officers and members to provide the Authoritys services is bewildering to say the least.
So what will be the Andrews Governments legacy to the CFA?
Apart from a massive decline in the morale of volunteers across the state, the Andrews Government legacy will be to seriously weaken the ethos, independence and ultimately the integrity of one of the great volunteer organisations in the history of Victoria.
Thus, ultimately, the capacity and effectiveness of the CFA as the nations pre-eminent firefighting organisation is severely reduced at great cost to our state.
This sorry saga demands a government rethink before it is too late.
Jack Rush, QC, was senior counsel assisting the bushfires royal commission and is a former judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/cfa-dispute-deal-risks-our-volunteers-future-jack-rush-qc/news-story/4dc738e4247144bd8bb4635bdfea5a31
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Daniel Andrews addressing the falsehoods put forward by the Libs who fund the CFA campaign & counter the nonsense distortions of Jack Rush & others:
I was down at Springvale CFA fire station on the weekend talking to firefighters, and their overwhelming message to me was they are sick of the lies being told about the CFA Enterprise Agreement.
This dispute has dragged on for well over 1000 days and they want it to end.
That is why we've taken action to find a fair and balanced solution. We simply can't let it go on through another fire season that's just not safe.
I grew up in the country, so I know what local volunteer fire brigades mean to families and towns across Victoria.
While there are many lies being told about the agreement, the most important fact is this: CFA volunteer fire stations will continue operating as they always have with their own independence, their own special connections to the community, and their own unique knowledge of their local area.
The role of volunteer firefighters in this state is sacrosanct. At no stage has our government questioned it or jeopardised it.
Anything that says otherwise is a lie.
And a lot of lies have emerged during this destructive scare campaign.
Here are the three worst.
Lie 1: CFA volunteer firefighters won't be allowed to do a thing until seven career firefighters arrive at an incident.
Fact: First of all, the requirement is that seven career firefighters simply be dispatched. If the fire is under control, the second truck can be cancelled.
Secondly, this requirement is limited only to 34 "integrated" CFA stations in highly-populated areas, like Frankston and Geelong.
It won't apply at the other almost 1,200 CFA stations across Victoria that's 97 per cent of them.
Ultimately, I believe having more firefighters in these 34 fast-growing and highly-populated areas is a good thing, not a bad thing. We're providing more police and paramedics, too.
Lie 2: There will be a veto power over the decisions of the CFA.
Fact: There is no veto in this agreement.
Like most workplaces, there will be consultation on issues that affect the employment of career firefighters, such as the recognition of prior learning. If they don't reach agreement, it goes to an independent umpire.
Lie 3: This new agreement will destroy the CFA.
Fact: That's just an insult to the commitment and dedication of volunteer and career firefighters everywhere.
It's the most irresponsible lie of all, because it's made people unnecessarily concerned about their homes, businesses and livestock. And that's scare campaigning 101.
At Wye River for example, we had a volunteer incident controller in charge of the fire ground. That will not change under this agreement.
I promise you that by the time the next fire season rolls around, the CFA will be stronger than ever before.
The long-running dispute will be behind us and more career firefighters will be on the ground in 34 highly-populated areas to support the volunteer effort.
We've appointed Emergency Management Commissioner Craig Lapsley to oversee the implementation of the agreement and make sure the role of volunteers is protected.
We've also invested in new trucks, stations and training facilities for volunteer brigades across the state, and we'll deliver presumptive rights to cancer compensation for both volunteer and career firefighters.
As we end this dispute, the most important thing is this: the CFA will be stronger than ever, and so will be the dedicated volunteers who have protected our state for so many years.
Daniel Andrews is Premier of Victoria
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/premier-daniel-andrews-defends-cfa-deal-20160620-gpn52f.html#ixzz4CPNS0n3F
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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People need to be reminded about the quality of leadership in the CFA. The leaders in the CFA and the LNP did not want an investigation into Fiskville. The leaders in the CFA and the LNP denied there was any link to cancer and there is no case to answer. Amazingly the union with the ALP fought for an inquiry as they believed there was a link to cancer and surprise surprise it was proven. Now the State (Taxpayers) will have to pay millions in compensation. The costs do not finish now, like asbestos and black lung this will continue in compensation for decades.
With black lung, this was eradicated with air filtering pushed by the unions. Now it's back because the unions don't have much say with Overseas companies employing foreign workers in coal mines. The companies are lax and cut costs ignoring safety of their workers. Bag Unions all you like but your chances of dying on a Union work site is minimal compared to non union work sites. As it stands 191 workers have died at work. That is 191 people never got to go home to their families. The CEO/Management did, but not the workers. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | Daniel Andrews addressing the falsehoods put forward by the Libs who fund the CFA campaign & counter the nonsense distortions of Jack Rush & others:
I was down at Springvale CFA fire station on the weekend talking to firefighters, and their overwhelming message to me was they are sick of the lies being told about the CFA Enterprise Agreement.
This dispute has dragged on for well over 1000 days and they want it to end.
That is why we've taken action to find a fair and balanced solution. We simply can't let it go on through another fire season that's just not safe.
I grew up in the country, so I know what local volunteer fire brigades mean to families and towns across Victoria.
While there are many lies being told about the agreement, the most important fact is this: CFA volunteer fire stations will continue operating as they always have with their own independence, their own special connections to the community, and their own unique knowledge of their local area.
The role of volunteer firefighters in this state is sacrosanct. At no stage has our government questioned it or jeopardised it.
Anything that says otherwise is a lie.
And a lot of lies have emerged during this destructive scare campaign.
Here are the three worst.
Lie 1: CFA volunteer firefighters won't be allowed to do a thing until seven career firefighters arrive at an incident.
Fact: First of all, the requirement is that seven career firefighters simply be dispatched. If the fire is under control, the second truck can be cancelled.
Secondly, this requirement is limited only to 34 "integrated" CFA stations in highly-populated areas, like Frankston and Geelong.
It won't apply at the other almost 1,200 CFA stations across Victoria that's 97 per cent of them.
Ultimately, I believe having more firefighters in these 34 fast-growing and highly-populated areas is a good thing, not a bad thing. We're providing more police and paramedics, too.
Lie 2: There will be a veto power over the decisions of the CFA.
Fact: There is no veto in this agreement.
Like most workplaces, there will be consultation on issues that affect the employment of career firefighters, such as the recognition of prior learning. If they don't reach agreement, it goes to an independent umpire.
Lie 3: This new agreement will destroy the CFA.
Fact: That's just an insult to the commitment and dedication of volunteer and career firefighters everywhere.
It's the most irresponsible lie of all, because it's made people unnecessarily concerned about their homes, businesses and livestock. And that's scare campaigning 101.
At Wye River for example, we had a volunteer incident controller in charge of the fire ground. That will not change under this agreement.
I promise you that by the time the next fire season rolls around, the CFA will be stronger than ever before.
The long-running dispute will be behind us and more career firefighters will be on the ground in 34 highly-populated areas to support the volunteer effort.
We've appointed Emergency Management Commissioner Craig Lapsley to oversee the implementation of the agreement and make sure the role of volunteers is protected.
We've also invested in new trucks, stations and training facilities for volunteer brigades across the state, and we'll deliver presumptive rights to cancer compensation for both volunteer and career firefighters.
As we end this dispute, the most important thing is this: the CFA will be stronger than ever, and so will be the dedicated volunteers who have protected our state for so many years.
Daniel Andrews is Premier of Victoria
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/premier-daniel-andrews-defends-cfa-deal-20160620-gpn52f.html#ixzz4CPNS0n3F
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook |
Good read, thanks
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Culprit wrote: | People need to be reminded about the quality of leadership in the CFA. The leaders in the CFA and the LNP did not want an investigation into Fiskville. The leaders in the CFA and the LNP denied there was any link to cancer and there is no case to answer. Amazingly the union with the ALP fought for an inquiry as they believed there was a link to cancer and surprise surprise it was proven. Now the State (Taxpayers) will have to pay millions in compensation. The costs do not finish now, like asbestos and black lung this will continue in compensation for decades.
With black lung, this was eradicated with air filtering pushed by the unions. Now it's back because the unions don't have much say with Overseas companies employing foreign workers in coal mines. The companies are lax and cut costs ignoring safety of their workers. Bag Unions all you like but your chances of dying on a Union work site is minimal compared to non union work sites. As it stands 191 workers have died at work. That is 191 people never got to go home to their families. The CEO/Management did, but not the workers. |
OMG I just googled fiskville, that's terrifying. I vaguely remember hearing a bit about it. But gees, the links to the sheep farmers, not just what they have done as an experiment to the CFA workers, this is an Erin Brockevich case. That's just disgusting. Covering it up makes it so much worse.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | People need to be reminded about the quality of leadership in the CFA. The leaders in the CFA and the LNP did not want an investigation into Fiskville. The leaders in the CFA and the LNP denied there was any link to cancer and there is no case to answer. Amazingly the union with the ALP fought for an inquiry as they believed there was a link to cancer and surprise surprise it was proven. Now the State (Taxpayers) will have to pay millions in compensation. The costs do not finish now, like asbestos and black lung this will continue in compensation for decades.
With black lung, this was eradicated with air filtering pushed by the unions. Now it's back because the unions don't have much say with Overseas companies employing foreign workers in coal mines. The companies are lax and cut costs ignoring safety of their workers. Bag Unions all you like but your chances of dying on a Union work site is minimal compared to non union work sites. As it stands 191 workers have died at work. That is 191 people never got to go home to their families. The CEO/Management did, but not the workers. |
OMG I just googled fiskville, that's terrifying. I vaguely remember hearing a bit about it. But gees, the links to the sheep farmers, not just what they have done as an experiment to the CFA workers, this is an Erin Brockevich case. That's just disgusting. Covering it up makes it so much worse. |
And these are the same idiots that resigned from the CFA. The Same idiots who ran Operations at Wye River who blame everyone else bar themselves. This is something the mainstream Media refuse to report in their stories and as they say, never let the truth get in the way of a good story. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| 191 workers have died at work does? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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So WPT, you think some fluff from Dandrews has more credibility than a QC and ex supreme court judge?
How about an associate professor of law then?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | So WPT, you think some fluff from Dandrews has more credibility than a QC and ex supreme court judge?
How about an associate professor of law then?
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If I'm reading this right full professor is saying that Turnbull's proposed amendments would not be legal if they got through the senate - That's why he's a full professor & not merely an associate prof 
The Turnbull solution is a commitment to amend the Fair Work Act "to protect volunteer emergency services organisations", in part by stating that an emergency services management body cannot exclude volunteers from participating "in any of its functions or activities".
University of Adelaide law professor Andrew Stewart believes such an amendment could be vulnerable to High Court challenge on the grounds of transgressing state autonomy.
"I find it almost inconceivable that this legislation could make it through the Senate and, even if it did, that it could be meaningfully or validly applied to a body like the CFA," he tells me.
I agree with the professor.
However, I also agree that the CFA has been mismanaged, that the cost of their actions (see Fiskville) has cost people's health & lives. The CFA is unruly & needs to be accountable.
Additionally, as I've noted earlier Andrews has mishandled this. He left a vacuum that has been exploited by the Libs, News limited & some other bottom feeders.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm not too bothered about what Turnbull proposes, see if he follows through. It's a lot more difficult to gauge the legality of a proposal when it's only a soundbyte with no substance than it is to read an agreement and make an informed decision.
The CFA may well be in need of bringing to heel and having better management, but that's not the unions job to manage the organisation, that's the governments job to get the right management in place and the right levels of accountability and transparency.
It's interesting that the only copy of the proposed agreement I can find online is with the Herald Sun. http://media.heraldsun.com.au/files/061115/UFU-agreement1.pdf
You'd think the UFU would have it on their website to inform their members. Still, the final document will have to be made public soon as it has to be made available to all the CFA employees to read before they can vote to accept it or not.
I'll have a read through this draft one when I get some time and see if the term "agreement" is used in place of the normal term "consultation" which is what is being implied.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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I spent a week at Fiskville doing a training course. not in firefighting though. For 2 bucks I became a life member of the Fiskville golf club. The putting surface was made of gravel.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| If the vocal minority of the CFA who are LNP supporters want to make this a Federal issue then the CFA is doomed as an entity. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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So even the newly appointed CEO of the CFA sees issues with the CFA agreement.
| Quote: | The new CFA chief has refused to endorse the state government's costing of the contentious new workplace deal and admitted the agreement is difficult to interpret.
CFA chief executive Frances Diver told 3AW that the authority's management was still working through the deal's cost despite the government's insistence it would be $160 million.
However, documents leaked to The Sunday Age indicated the deal could reach almost $700 million.
Ms Diver, who has chosen for the role by the state government, said the agreement was not ideal and at 400 pages was the longest she had seen.
"One of the problems I see is that it's long, it's complex. Its clauses interact with each other and I think it's quite difficult to interpret," she said.
Ms Diver also conceded it "is a problem in some ways" that CFA management would have to engage in increased consultation with the United Firefighters Union as part of the deal. |
Looks like being a wet spring, we should hope it's not a hot summer.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/new-cfa-chief-frances-diver-admits-new-agreement-not-ideal-20160819-gqwelg.html
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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