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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| Post subject: We are where we are, it is what it is. |  |
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A mate offered this analysis of the younger portion of our list, which explains a whole lot actually.
I'd urge any of the "Sack Buckley" people to have a look and maybe, just maybe, soften your stance on the subject a touch.
Fair enough if you still think he's no good, but take the following into account first.
| My Mate wrote: | We really have a young list!
I believe the theory was most players hit their straps at that 60-70 game mark and if you have enough of those you’re a threat!
Below tells a story: (the bold have screwed our development by a few years)
Crisp 46 (cant complain progressing nicely and in best 22 when in form)
Grundy 46 (cant complain progressing nicely and in best 22 when in form)
Langdon 46 (cant complain progressing nicely and in best 22 when in form)
Witt’s 39 (cant complain progressing nicely and in best 22 when in form although injurie cost him 20-25 games)
Aish 36 (cant complain progressing nicely and in best 22 when in form)
Frost 48 (back up and value for money)
Sinclair 55 (back but injuries have cost him being at 80-100 games and would he be better for that….POSSIBLY)
Oxley 24 (back up and value for money but injuries have cost him being at 50 games and would he be better for that….YES)
Thomas 32 (35-40 games lost through stupidity and would be a far better player and maybe best 22)
Keefe 40 (55-60 games lost through stupidity and injuries! would be a far better player and maybe best 22)
Broomhead 20 (Injuries cost him being at 50 plus and best 22 by a mile and far better player)
Scharenburg 4(Injuries cost him being at 0 plus and best 22 by a mile and far better player)
Marsh 5(Injuries cost him being at 30 plus and best 22 soon)
Ramsay 9(Injuries cost him being at 50 plus and best 22 )
Maynard 13 (no complaints progressing nicely)
Moore 15 (no complaints progressing nicely and star in 50 more games)
DeGoey 22 (no complaints progressing nicely and star in 50 more games)
The rest are there or too new so to speak!
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Like I said, a mate took the time to put that together, I'm not claiming it at all. Food for thought.......
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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I'm not worried about the personnel.
What I am worried about is the structures and systems. Regardless of age profile, they are non existent. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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que sera sera.
km, there are many who will not disagree with that assessment. what the issue is is the vocal minority simply dismiss these sorts of assessments out of hand and somehow they find a way to perversely use them to support their anti-buckley sentiments. unfortunately, it only serves to feed them.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| John Wren wrote: | que sera sera.
km, there are many who will not disagree with that assessment. what the issue is is the vocal minority simply dismiss these sorts of assessments out of hand and somehow they find a way to perversely use them to support their anti-buckley sentiments. unfortunately, it only serves to feed them. |
Yep, a good argument well made is like swill to pigs |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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| jackcass wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | que sera sera.
km, there are many who will not disagree with that assessment. what the issue is is the vocal minority simply dismiss these sorts of assessments out of hand and somehow they find a way to perversely use them to support their anti-buckley sentiments. unfortunately, it only serves to feed them. |
Yep, a good argument well made is like swill to pigs |
Age and game profile is a factor you consider. Have no issues with that.
But it doesn't explain the full picture.
Age or game profile doesn't stop a clear and visible plan or gamestyle being present.
You can lose games with a young list and at the same time you can show a visible and workable structure. |
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Beast
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
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Can your mate give a detailed analysis of why 2013-2015 years have been a complete disaster too?
And just in case he wants to know why I've excluded 2012 from the question Bucks is on the record saying he hardly changed a thing that year. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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| Jez07 wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | que sera sera.
km, there are many who will not disagree with that assessment. what the issue is is the vocal minority simply dismiss these sorts of assessments out of hand and somehow they find a way to perversely use them to support their anti-buckley sentiments. unfortunately, it only serves to feed them. |
Yep, a good argument well made is like swill to pigs |
Age and game profile is a factor you consider. Have no issues with that.
But it doesn't explain the full picture.
Age or game profile doesn't stop a clear and visible plan or gamestyle being present.
You can lose games with a young list and at the same time you can show a visible and workable structure. |
Agree Jez… the 'full picture' does not allow for the excuse of youth… and the full picture reveals a crap style and game plan… Put another 10 top players into our team playing the handball to a guy under pressure - bomb long to the fwd line and zone dead space in defence with no pressure on the ball-carrier style of footy and they would also lose most games… 
If Hardwick is ready to reload a new style this week after weeks of failure and has recently been in deep and meaningfuls with Bux I hope some of it rubs off because Bux needs something to give me hope and to more importantly make the most of the kids who are about to approach the go-zone! At the moment we are headed to the twilight zone
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| Jez07 wrote: | I'm not worried about the personnel.
What I am worried about is the structures and systems. Regardless of age profile, they are non existent. |
Agreed.
Monkey's mate does make sense mathematically, but it's still just deck-chairs on the Titanic, for the regime of the current coaching panel and fitness staff.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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Tezza23
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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We could debate for some time whether a player is or is not in the best 22, but we are talking about Collingwood which is a bottom 6 side. If those players were a "best 22" for a top 6 side then it would be more encouraging.
The majority of those you listed would not be automatic selections for any of the current top 4 sides, and while we hope a player will improve over the years, plenty of players stagnate as well. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm not worried about structure and systems. We've all seen what we can do when it works.
The game plan isn't the issue it's the players ability to execute it. Maybe it needs to be dumbed down a bit, don't know, but when we click we play well.
that's all about players.
I work in HR (or in reality I used to, now I'm JAFM) and my philosophy was that if I did my job properly as a HR person I'd do myself out of a job because the managers who I worked with would all have enough skill to not need my help.
I heard Bucks say something similar recently, referring to players decision making on the field and the capacity of the coach to do things quickly.
The coaches want the players to get to the point where they adapt on field to different situations without needing instructions, because by the time you get them it can be too late.
What KM has posted from his mate highlighting our lack of actual game experience is definitely a factor. Add to that we can't get a settled side and having a group of players all playing together for a while, knowing each other, trusting each other, ie essential to get best form.
You can introduce 1 or 2 new players into a settled team and they will fit in. Introduce 3-4 players each week into an unsettled team and guess what happens?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Jez07 wrote: | Age and game profile is a factor you consider. Have no issues with that.
But it doesn't explain the full picture.
Age or game profile doesn't stop a clear and visible plan or gamestyle being present.
You can lose games with a young list and at the same time you can show a visible and workable structure. |
I've heard this argument many times, on here about the Pies and in the media about virtually any struggling side.
"I can't tell what the game plan is"
If the playing group don't execute the game plan properly and fail to deliver it on game day, then how would anyone watching be able to discern what the intent of the coaching staff is?
Hawthorn looked like a side without a game plan when they were getting smashed by GWS. I'm pretty sure they have one though.
I think 'playing badly' and 'having no game plan' are often used interchangeably by fans and media alike. |
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CarringbushCigar
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| More excuse threads per week than wins per year |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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| piedys wrote: | | Jez07 wrote: | I'm not worried about the personnel.
What I am worried about is the structures and systems. Regardless of age profile, they are non existent. |
Agreed.
Monkey's mate does make sense mathematically, but it's still just deck-chairs on the Titanic, for the regime of the current coaching panel and fitness staff. |
Footy Show are reporting there is going to be a big shake up for a big Melbourne club in a variety of offield positions and one fitness director is about to lose his job. I'd assume that is us and Davoren. |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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| Redlight wrote: | | Jez07 wrote: | Age and game profile is a factor you consider. Have no issues with that.
But it doesn't explain the full picture.
Age or game profile doesn't stop a clear and visible plan or gamestyle being present.
You can lose games with a young list and at the same time you can show a visible and workable structure. |
I've heard this argument many times, on here about the Pies and in the media about virtually any struggling side.
"I can't tell what the game plan is"
If the playing group don't execute the game plan properly and fail to deliver it on game day, then how would anyone watching be able to discern what the intent of the coaching staff is?
Hawthorn looked like a side without a game plan when they were getting smashed by GWS. I'm pretty sure they have one though.
I think 'playing badly' and 'having no game plan' are often used interchangeably by fans and media alike. |
Tell me what it is. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| CarringbushCigar wrote: | | More excuse threads per week than wins per year |
You want more? |
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