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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | MAGPIEAVENGER wrote: | If we trade either of them. What will we do if the one we keep gets injured? No depth, no back up
. Ruckmen don't reach there peak until 25 yrs of age or there abouts. We would be extremely foolish to trade either of them right now. Let them develop over the next 2-3 seasons and then assess our options. Everyone needs to take a chill pill and be very patient. |
Remember when Carlton had Kreuzer, Warnock and Hampson?
Lots of talk about trading one out and finally they did and got a late second round pick for Hampson. Then Kreuzer gets injured, Warnock turns out to be a pea-hearted giraffe and they wallow at the bottom of the ladder playing a rookie listed Cam Wood and Levi Casboult as their starting rucks. Good times, but not something we'd be interested in trying I don't think. |
Although Hampson turned out to be a dud as well, so the trade probably worked for them in the end.
I don't think we would be mad to trade Witts. If we have a clear gap in our side that could be filled by trading him, it's definitely something to consider.
Of course you need backup rucks. But at their best will either Grundy or Witts be a backup? I think they'll both be first team players. The next question is then: can they effectively play together, or is a more mobile second ruck a better option? The answer to that right now is: no, they can't play together effectively. We need to decide whether we think this will work down the track and decide what our best balance will be.
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Well done boys! |
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Domesticated_Ape 
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | MAGPIEAVENGER wrote: | If we trade either of them. What will we do if the one we keep gets injured? No depth, no back up
. Ruckmen don't reach there peak until 25 yrs of age or there abouts. We would be extremely foolish to trade either of them right now. Let them develop over the next 2-3 seasons and then assess our options. Everyone needs to take a chill pill and be very patient. |
Remember when Carlton had Kreuzer, Warnock and Hampson?
Lots of talk about trading one out and finally they did and got a late second round pick for Hampson. Then Kreuzer gets injured, Warnock turns out to be a pea-hearted giraffe and they wallow at the bottom of the ladder playing a rookie listed Cam Wood and Levi Casboult as their starting rucks. Good times, but not something we'd be interested in trying I don't think. |
Although Hampson turned out to be a dud as well, so the trade probably worked for them in the end.
I don't think we would be mad to trade Witts. If we have a clear gap in our side that could be filled by trading him, it's definitely something to consider.
Of course you need backup rucks. But at their best will either Grundy or Witts be a backup? I think they'll both be first team players. The next question is then: can they effectively play together, or is a more mobile second ruck a better option? The answer to that right now is: no, they can't play together effectively. We need to decide whether we think this will work down the track and decide what our best balance will be. |
We also need to know who the better player out of Witts and Grundy is in the long term, and then if necessary, trade the other one when his value is at it's highest. Hampson might be a bit of a dud, but I'd pick him before Warnock and that wasn't clear when he was traded.
Neither of our blokes are at their best right now. They wouldn't be getting a regular game at North, WCE, Freo or Adelaide for example. Their trade value can only improve over the next few years unless they get injured. It's not decision time on these guys yet. Maybe next year. |
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STOKA35 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Mount Barker. South Australia
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| Grundy is the better ruck option. I don't think wits will make it long term |
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Domesticated_Ape
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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| Grundy looks the better option right now, but things can change pretty quickly. Can't see either one playing less than 150 games unless injuries get them. |
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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| Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | MAGPIEAVENGER wrote: | If we trade either of them. What will we do if the one we keep gets injured? No depth, no back up
. Ruckmen don't reach there peak until 25 yrs of age or there abouts. We would be extremely foolish to trade either of them right now. Let them develop over the next 2-3 seasons and then assess our options. Everyone needs to take a chill pill and be very patient. |
Remember when Carlton had Kreuzer, Warnock and Hampson?
Lots of talk about trading one out and finally they did and got a late second round pick for Hampson. Then Kreuzer gets injured, Warnock turns out to be a pea-hearted giraffe and they wallow at the bottom of the ladder playing a rookie listed Cam Wood and Levi Casboult as their starting rucks. Good times, but not something we'd be interested in trying I don't think. |
Mate, I remember when Carlton traded Sam Jacobs to Adelaide because they already had Kreuzer, Spudnock and Hampson. Jacobs couldn't get solid game time, so asked to be traded back to SA. The Blues got a 2nd and 3rd rounder for him. What's he worth now?
If we decide to trade out Witts or Grundy, we will not get adequate compensation. Not yet. |
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Domesticated_Ape
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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That's right, forgot Jacobs was there as well. God they're terrible. 
His value would be pretty high right now. Probably worth 2 first rounders or a couple of good young players. McEvoy went for pick 19 and Shane Savage and I reckon Sauce is a better player. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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Overrated? Who rates them?
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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At the current moment, not future potential, are Witts and Grundy any better than Woods and Ceglar?
I am struggling to think that they are!
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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feKKo
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Grundy had 1 bad game and people saying he is no better then Wood.
Looking at his stats for the year he has basically had the same output as Sam Jacobs.
Brodie Grundy Sam Jacobs
14 Games 16
8.6 Kicks Per Game 8.3
7.1 Handballs Per Game 7.1
15.7 Disposals Per Game 15.4
3.5 Marks Per Game 4.1
0.5 Goals Per Game 0.2
0.2 Behinds Per Game 0.2
4.2 Tackles Per Game 1.9
22.7 Hitouts Per Game 35.8
2.0 Inside 50s Per Game 2.4
0.4 Goal Assists Per Game 0.2
1.5 Frees For Per Game 0.9
1.7 Frees Against Per Game 0.6
8.5 Contested Possessions Per Game 6.0
7.3 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 9.4
9.6 Effective Disposals Per Game 11.0
61.1% Effective Disposals % Per Game 71.4%
3.6 Clangers Per Game 1.8
0.5 Contested Marks Per Game 0.6
0.4 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.1
3.4 Clearances Per Game 2.5
81.0 Time On Ground % Per Game 88.2
89.7 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 95.2
Main thing he needs to pickup is his Disposal efficiency.
The main reason that his hitouts would be down would be because we are playing 2 ruckman.
Witts on the other hand is comparable to Woods. |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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| Domesticated_Ape wrote: |
Spot on. Marking is a weakness for both our players and a strength of Gawn's. Our blokes will continue to improve in that area though, so it's not a massive concern at this stage.
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can't agree, marking is a skill that you either have, or don't have. Looking back at lunch time kick to kick at school, there were always a few kids who had sticky hands and would mark everything in sight. Take Wes Fellowes, much maligned on this site. If you kicked the ball to a pack containing Wes after a behind, he would mark it on a regular basis, one grab. Saw a bit of that in Gawn on the weekend. Our two don't do that, and i doubt ever will.
Either Witts or Grundy can be an adequate ruckman (nothing spectacular).
Why don't we get Gawn? |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Witts and Grundy rook 3 marks between them on Saturday!
Only 2 of them were overhead. |
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Domesticated_Ape
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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| gurugeoff wrote: | | Domesticated_Ape wrote: |
Spot on. Marking is a weakness for both our players and a strength of Gawn's. Our blokes will continue to improve in that area though, so it's not a massive concern at this stage.
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can't agree, marking is a skill that you either have, or don't have. Looking back at lunch time kick to kick at school, there were always a few kids who had sticky hands and would mark everything in sight. Take Wes Fellowes, much maligned on this site. If you kicked the ball to a pack containing Wes after a behind, he would mark it on a regular basis, one grab. Saw a bit of that in Gawn on the weekend. Our two don't do that, and i doubt ever will.
Either Witts or Grundy can be an adequate ruckman (nothing spectacular).
Why don't we get Gawn? |
I dunno mate, reckon Grundy and Witts would have grabbed a few back in your school yard had they been there. Height advantage would have been enough, even against a young Wes Fellows.
Seriously, the coaching these days has improved so much that anyone can improve in any area. These two in particular just need to work on their reading of the flight and body positioning to improve their marking. Look at NicNat when he first started. He had no idea, but now he's regularly taking rippers. Needs to do it more often as well, but again, that will improve in time. Rucks peak in their late 20's. |
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