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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Can anyone explain to me why a public inquiry into children in detention wasn't held while Labor was in power when there were far more children in detention?
I believe that is what has the Libs with their panties in a twist, and rightly so. I think their delivery of the whole "It's not fair, it was them first" hasn't come off so well however.
All the 'free the refugees' crowd (a few committed hardcores excepted) were eerily silent during the Rudd/Gillard years. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Nonsense. You just weren't paying attention. The 'free the refugees' crowd has never been silent.
http://refugeeadvocacynetwork.org/media-alert-refugee-groups-unite-to-protest-against-mandatory-detention/
There were heaps of protests like these, particularly after Gillard took office, and they only intensified once Rudd took over again and swung the ALP further right on refugees.
As for why the inquiry is being held now, I think this ABC fact check report explained some of the misconceptions:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/triggs-detention/6083476
The important point, though, is that it doesn't matter when it was held. Obviously the problem has continued to worsen. The report is equally scathing towards both the Gillard/Rudd governments and Abbott government alike. More to the point, it deals factually with events that are actually happening right now.
The truth isn't partisan.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Refugee advocacy groups are the 'hardcore' David.
That fact check thing was a bit disingenuous. The numbers were indeed highest in Jan 14 when the inquiry began, true, but those numbers could be easily predicted by the huge influx of refugees leading up to that moment. The figures (what we're allowed to see, the raw data was 'unavailable') show numbers of all those in detention dropping, as I assume the bureaucrats work through the backlog.
The Libs are incredulous that in dealing with the problem their way and preventing people ending up in detention, men women and children they are still hung up by what appears to be a politically motivated enquiry. (Looking at it from their perspective, don't fall into the trap that others do when you go devils advocate).
Of course going full attack dog on a darling of the left who also happens to be a woman is not going to play well. On a purely political pragmatic viewpoint the Libs have gone down in flames on this one. Seems to be their standard strategy these days, be as politically inept as possible and look like idiots. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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These protests attracted far more people than just members of refugee advocacy groups. But if they are all 'hardcore', what do you actually mean by the 'free the refugees' crowd? There are many Abbott-haters who don't really care a fig about refugees, now or then. Those who take the time to protest or speak up against our treatment of asylum seekers (which has gotten worse under Abbott and during Rudd's second tenure) were generally appalled by Labor's policies and weren't afraid to criticise them for it.
Can the current government really seriously expect that a human rights commission would give them a pat on the back for what they're doing? Do they actually believe their own spin?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Wokko wrote: | | Can anyone explain to me why a public inquiry into children in detention wasn't held while Labor was in power |
There were three different ones. Reports by the Human Right Commission bearing on children in detention, I mean. The HRC reports on whatever it thinks is worth reporting on. That's its job. HRC reports tend to be, very properly, carefully researched and detailed. It takes quite a while. This current children in detention report took a long while to put together and bore on the practices of both Labor and Liberal governments.
Don't forget that it is already old news: it was finished, printed, and handed to the government months ago. Abbott and Brandis were afraid of it and suppressed it for as long as possible. While they kept it secret, they conspired to get rid of the author - without success, thankfully.
Abbott has sealed his own death warrant with the clumsy, mindlessly aggressive way he has handled this, and Brandis cannot possibly survive as AG now either. Contrast with Turnbull's grace and sense. Even rabid right Liberal Party backbenchers and cabinet ministers can read that. Abbott is G A W N and the real boss, Credlin, will be out of a job, thank god.
The only question now is who gets the job.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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The Children in detention thing is a smokescreen anyway. People who tolerate adults being incarcerated baulk at kids being kept, so it's just another lever to scrap the mandatory detention.
People are told not to come by boat or they'll end up in detention. So if they do come and bring kids with them, what do you do?
1. Stick em in detention exactly as you said you would. Result, people squawk about kids being locked up.
2. Lock up the adults and put the kids in foster care in the community. Result People would squawk about the children being separated from their families
3. Let those who have kids with them live in the community as a family unit. Result, you just created a black market in Children in Indonesia.
The best deterrent is the one you don't have to use. By taking a hard line, after the first few try it and get exactly what was promised no matter how much squawking, they stop coming. Result, if you don't have to lock anyone up, none of them are kids. Problem solved.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | The Children in detention thing is a smokescreen anyway. People who tolerate adults being incarcerated baulk at kids being kept, so it's just another lever to scrap the mandatory detention.
People are told not to come by boat or they'll end up in detention. So if they do come and bring kids with them, what do you do?
1. Stick em in detention exactly as you said you would. Result, people squawk about kids being locked up.
2. Lock up the adults and put the kids in foster care in the community. Result People would squawk about the children being separated from their families
3. Let those who have kids with them live in the community as a family unit. Result, you just created a black market in Children in Indonesia.
The best deterrent is the one you don't have to use. By taking a hard line, after the first few try it and get exactly what was promised no matter how much squawking, they stop coming. Result, if you don't have to lock anyone up, none of them are kids. Problem solved. |
Gee that's a little to logical for the tavern!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Stui, it's not comfortable, but I think I agree with this. However deeply distasteful the whole offshore processing thing is, it's better than granting incentives to people smugglers and deaths by drowning. Sometimes life is about stinking choices forced on you by independent wills. I guess the only other option is processing in the community, which seems to be impossible to effect.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | I guess the only other option is processing in the community, which seems to be impossible to effect. |
Impossible logistically, or impossible because there aren't enough votes in not looking "tough on people smuggling"?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Some people just have to learn the hard way, and some don't care it's at the expense of the lives of others. As for assessing within the community, why not put out a flier inviting in every redneck, corrupt, terrorist, rapist, murderer, pedophile, that can't find a place to live.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Do you really think that the average person seeking asylum belongs to one of those categories?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | | ^ Do you really think that the average person seeking asylum belongs to one of those categories? |
Aren't they all paedophiles? |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Baby-drowners, wasn't it?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | I guess the only other option is processing in the community, which seems to be impossible to effect. |
Impossible logistically, or impossible because there aren't enough votes in not looking "tough on people smuggling"? |
Or because doing that effectively throws out the welcome mat.
Now maybe you think they're doing a humanitarian service, I think the people smugglers are low grade human scum taking advantage of a situation for their own profit. I'd put them below drug smugglers and pretty much next to child molesters.
As for the people who want to come here, again there a small minority who seem to think that we should just open the doors and let in anyone who wants to come here because they think it's a great big country and there's heaps of room.
The majority don't believe that and do believe that we have the right and the need to control immigration to this country. We need top balance overall numbers coming in of both skilled and humanitarian immigration. Anything that encourages people to come here by boat is utterly stupid and counterproductive for a number of reasons:
1. It encourages people to risk their lives
2. It abdicates control of our immigration system to human filth
3. It lines the pockets of said human filth
4. It blocks the arteries of our humanitarian intake, requiring money and time be spent in a reactive manner that could be far better spent proactively
Cynically referring to there being votes in being hard on people smuggling totally misses the point. There IS votes in being hard on people smuggling and despite what the bleeding hearts might think, it's NOT because we're all a bunch of racist rednecks.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | ^ Do you really think that the average person seeking asylum belongs to one of those categories? |
No, but the average person seeking asylum also isn't trying to come here by boat. The average person seeking asylum is sitting in a refugee camp. The minority who have the money and means to get to anywhere in the world but choose to go to Indonesia and pay a smuggler to take them to Australia aren't average.
I know why the left lump the two together but I expected that people with actual intelligence not to get sucked into that.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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