Vale Gough Whitlam
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | It's certainly "time" for another Whitlam. It sure ain't Shorten, I'll say that much. |
I agree that Shorten aint no Whitlam, but that's not necessarily a negative. Hawke was no Whitlam but was a damn better PM.
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Shorten sure ain't no Hawke, either! 
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Shorten sure ain't no Hawke, either! |
LOL, nope, he ain't.
He's way more Gillard/Krudd material of which the ALP has an ample supply.
They don't need another Whitlam, they need another Hawke/Keating combo. Anyone who thinks Swan was fit to tie Keatings shoe laces as a treasurer has NFI.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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die4pies 
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
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Ya bunch of bozzos!!!
You all missed the most important bit why Gough was so great!
Gough n' Gabo
RIP Mr Whitlam.
(PS. Great post PP)
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"MAKE COLLINGWOOD GRATE AGAIN" |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| David wrote: | | It's certainly "time" for another Whitlam. It sure ain't Shorten, I'll say that much. |
We had one and the LNP/Media did pretty much the same to her! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Just for attribution sake. The wonderful song "From little things big things grow" was as I understand it written by Kev Carmody & Paul Kelly. I have it on a Kev Carmody CD from too many years ago called Bloodlines (great CD btw).
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| die4pies wrote: | Ya bunch of bozzos!!!
You all missed the most important bit why Gough was so great!
Gough n' Gabo
RIP Mr Whitlam.
(PS. Great post PP) |
Great stuff D4P including the reference to PP.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| 1061 wrote: | | David wrote: | | It's certainly "time" for another Whitlam. It sure ain't Shorten, I'll say that much. |
We had one and the LNP/Media did pretty much the same to her! |
Yeah, nah. Like many, I had hopes for Gillard, but her reforms were hardly earth-shattering. Dropped the ball on asylum seekers and same-sex marriage, chickened out on the mining tax, instituted a token carbon tax only because the Greens forced her to, attacked civil liberties at every opportunity and did precious little for society's marginalised.
The one thing she did that I enjoyed was finally giving the finger to Rudd's precious Australian Christian Lobby.
Otherwise, she was a perfectly competent PM, of course, which is more than we can say for our current one. But it would be nice to see a bit of vision from a Labor leader sometime this century. That's all Whitlam's government was, really: a government that was happy to roll the dice on progressive reform, even if not everybody was completely ready for it.
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| I always appreciate vision in politics, even if that vision isn't something I agree with. I'll take a rabid socialist reformer over a do nothing small target politician any day. Haven't seen a true reformer from either side for a long, long time. Last one was probably Hewson and maybe Latham, and because of what happened to them, they'll probably be the last. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ latham's vision was more in the nature of an hallucination.... I think David summed up Gillard pretty well, though. The last real visionary in Australian politics was surely P Keating. I often wonder how he'd have handled the asylum seeker dilemma in practice (for dilemma it is, not as black and white as either side makes out, in my view).
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Mugwump wrote: | | ^ latham's vision was more in the nature of an hallucination.... I think David summed up Gillard pretty well, though. The last real visionary in Australian politics was surely P Keating. I often wonder how he'd have handled the asylum seeker dilemma in practice (for dilemma it is, not as black and white as either side makes out, in my view). |
But you'd be wrong, just like those who said Mabo, multiculturalism and the social safety net were not black and white (and, of course, those who have since said Iraq and Afghanistan were not black and white, or that the sanctity of Medicare is not black and white.).
On form, there is little doubt Keating would've handled it same way he handled the exaggerated nonsense surrounding Mabo, and Stop the Asian Invasion; by knowing people were talking hysterical, racist rubbish and taking the hit without taking the bait. Meanwhile, he would've won on economics, sense and an ability to rip the frauds on the other side of the floor to pieces, leaving the racists and imperialists in the gutter where they belong without giving them even a fraction of an inch.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Well, it's not a black and white issue, i suppose, unless your hotline to a hypothetical reality makes it one. Let me know if it turns up any other racing certainties about how PK would have reacted to something that didn't happen in his time.... NB it was the Keating Government which instigated mandatory detention.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: |
Just for attribution sake. The wonderful song "From little things big things grow" was as I understand it written by Kev Carmody & Paul Kelly. I have it on a Kev Carmody CD from too many years ago called Bloodlines (great CD btw). |
yes, you are correct.
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Well, it's not a black and white issue, i suppose, unless your hotline to a hypothetical reality makes it one. Let me know if it turns up any other racing certainties about how PK would have reacted to something that didn't happen in his time.... NB it was the Keating Government which instigated mandatory detention. |
"Not black and white" is an empty vessel with no meaning whatsoever, while the term "mandatory detention" has lost its original meaning.
In the first instance, the legal and moral obligation to shelter refugees is clear. In the second instance, the need to assess and also medically treat refugee claimants is clear, as is the need to hold those at risk of flight in order to do that.
Neither of those things have anything to do with the hysterical, innumerate Yellow Peril fear mongering, and shameful efforts to dump the asylum seeker problem on our poor neighbours since Howard. (Hey, but Papua New Guineans and Cambodians are already poor, soiled and brown; dirty boat people will fit right in!).
On Keating, I used the phrase "on form". On form, Keating never kowtowed to racists; moreover, he is on the public record as saying he told Beazley he was making a big mistake by thinking he could outflank the right from the right on this very same issue.
Every single bit of racist nonsense peddled by the right and acquiesced to by the cowardly left is seen as an historical embarrassment warranting apology a couple of decades later; this will be no different to the Mabo hysteria or Asian Invasion hysteria which preceded it.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Wokko wrote: | | I always appreciate vision in politics, even if that vision isn't something I agree with. I'll take a rabid socialist reformer over a do nothing small target politician any day. |
I agree with this!
I don't think I agree with a lot of Whitlam's policies but I certainly believe he was a pioneer for social democracy in Australia and I liked the fact that he abolished conscription when he became leader in 1972. That was long overdue and necessary and overall he stood up for what he thought he was right so I admire that he had strong principles and was a man full of conviction and therefore I can see why he was well-liked by his supporters and followers.
Sad to hear about his passing but 98 is a great innings though! Part of me always thought he would reach 100 but sadly it wasn't to be.
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