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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | On the other hand, mugwump's observations about Hong Kong are entirely correct. Might have been better without the red rag in the last paragraph, since that seems to have enabled or encouraged some broad-ranging and irrelevant diatribes.
The Chinese leadership's record of horror and oppression is unacceptable and long-standing. It is no good special pleading for them or proffering the American jus tertii defence. |
Yes, that's the truth. My last sentence was genuinely relfective of my frustration that China's actions - as the world's other real superpower - get so little scrutiny compared to the US. But I should have realised it'd start a melee, and left ot out, rather than leave it in and then, what's worse, get sucked into the melee i'd started ! |
I'm not sure that having marshmallows thrown at you across the 49th parallel constitutes a męlée, just yet.  |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Mugwump wrote: | | My last sentence was genuinely relfective of my frustration that China's actions - as the world's other real superpower - get so little scrutiny compared to the US. |
The answer to that is possibly a simple one. People know almost nothing at all about China, and therefore have nothing meaningful to say on the topic. It took me a decade to feel like I knew enough to comment usefully on Korea; maybe I'm just slow, but thank god people leave China alone—imagine the utter rubbish you would have to endure day and night if you were actually a China expert. Listening to Bloomberg with all its resources trying to get a grip on what's going on there is bad enough
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | My last sentence was genuinely relfective of my frustration that China's actions - as the world's other real superpower - get so little scrutiny compared to the US. |
The answer to that is possibly a simple one. People know almost nothing at all about China, and therefore have nothing meaningful to say on the topic. It took me a decade to feel like I knew enough to comment usefully on Korea; maybe I'm just slow, but thank god people leave China alone—imagine the utter rubbish you would have to endure day and night if you were actually a China expert. Listening to Bloomberg with all its resources trying to get a grip on what's going on there is bad enough |
Well, fair enough, and i knew that a wikipedia sneak peek wasn't going to cut it with you on Korea. I liked your last post on the previous page, too- we're all better off staying away from polemics. Inquiry is usually more productive than advocacy. We'll have that drink in my beloved London, i hope, while you're here.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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While you guys chat about China and the US, I feel the real issue is being overlooked, and that's the power of mass peaceful protest in the face of authoritarian oppression. I guess time will tell how successful it proves—most mass protests in Hong Kong so far seem to have triggered government backdowns—but this sort of thing can potentially inspire dissidents both on the mainland and all over the world. I wish them all the best.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | While you guys chat about China and the US, I feel the real issue is being overlooked, and that's the power of mass peaceful protest in the face of authoritarian oppression. I guess time will tell how successful it proves—most mass protests in Hong Kong so far seem to have triggered government backdowns—but this sort of thing can potentially inspire dissidents both on the mainland and all over the world. I wish them all the best. |
It is going to be interesting. Hong Kong in particular has held a special place in China's history in regard to it's contact with the west. I'd guess that it's overall importance in the past meant it was treated differently than if the same stuff happened at an internal province.
Whatever happens, China may back down for the moment but they won't forgive or forget.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | While you guys chat about China and the US, I feel the real issue is being overlooked, and that's the power of mass peaceful protest in the face of authoritarian oppression. I guess time will tell how successful it proves—most mass protests in Hong Kong so far seem to have triggered government backdowns—but this sort of thing can potentially inspire dissidents both on the mainland and all over the world. I wish them all the best. |
Yes, let's hope so - but peaceful protest in Tiananmen 25 years ago was not that powerful.....
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | I'd guess that it's overall importance in the past meant it was treated differently than if the same stuff happened at an internal province. |
Most certainly. In fact, it's official government policy that it be so:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems
The trouble with permitting freedom of speech, journalism and protest is that people sometimes use those freedoms. And that tends to lead to a reduction in the scope of authoritarian power. Governments will rarely let power go quietly, so citizens need to be ready to fight for these liberties whenever the need arises. We here could learn a lot from Hong Kong.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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