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thompsoc 



Joined: 21 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:19 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:23 pm
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thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?
Thanks for your suggestion, I will have to consider it.
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September Zeros 



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:52 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?


No I thought the kick outs left a lot to be desired. I just don't think it was solely due to poor game plan and bucks.

I think in part it had something to do with the players trying to execute it.

In essence a combination of factors.

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thompsoc 



Joined: 21 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:16 pm
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September Zeros wrote:
thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?


No I thought the kick outs left a lot to be desired. I just don't think it was solely due to poor game plan and bucks.

I think in part it had something to do with the players trying to execute it.

In essence a combination of factors.

Good points.

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The_Staunton Virgo



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:21 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

September Zeros wrote:
thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?


No I thought the kick outs left a lot to be desired. I just don't think it was solely due to poor game plan and bucks.

I think in part it had something to do with the players trying to execute it.

In essence a combination of factors.


Maybe it's part of an education process

I would personally never let Big Tevez (c Heath Shaw) Lachy Keeffe take a kickout, but Buckley trusts him to do it and says it's part of his development to have that trust.

As you would know, I'm not a Nathan Buckley fan, but I would support you that sometimes with a young team you can only go on faith

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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:47 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Staunton wrote:
September Zeros wrote:
thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?


No I thought the kick outs left a lot to be desired. I just don't think it was solely due to poor game plan and bucks.

I think in part it had something to do with the players trying to execute it.

In essence a combination of factors.


Maybe it's part of an education process

I would personally never let Big Tevez (c Heath Shaw) Lachy Keeffe take a kickout, but Buckley trusts him to do it and says it's part of his development to have that trust.

As you would know, I'm not a Nathan Buckley fan, but I would support you that sometimes with a young team you can only go on faith


Only negative with Keeffe's kick ins is his decision making under pressure, which I think will improve with experience and exposure, and that he tends to kick to where a player is rather than putting it to where the player should be, again something experience will improve. He's technically a very good kick.

Also think Langdon could develop in this area. At a minimum, neither is any worse than Heater, and both have more upside in this area.

Either way, think we have more significant issues than kickins. Getting spanked in clearances and on the spread hurts us much more.
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rocketronnie 



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:51 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

September Zeros wrote:
thompsoc wrote:
Who is to blame for our pathetic kick out strategy!
Towards the end of the year you could hear a collective sigh
from the crowd when we took the kick out.
Yes, 15m kick to the deep defensive pocket
time and time again was a master stroke by bucks!


Did you ever stop to think that it may have had little to do with our game plan and more to do witht the fact that the lack of experience and talent playing for us forced errors??

I have my concerns re bucks, but give it a rest. Blaming him for every minute detail In every failure is over simplistic and ignorant.

You could have the perfect plan, but without the cattle to execute it, your dead in the water. Likewise vise versa is also true.

For mine it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Young team. Young coach. All of whom made mistakes. All of whom, learn and grow together.

The sacking of Ratten should be a firm lesson in the reasons why sacking the coach isn't the answer to everything.


True in regard to kids execution of plans but the game planning was a mess before we were playing lots of kids, earlier this year, last year, and the year before. Basically you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

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neil Sagittarius



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:50 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

jackcass wrote:
The_Staunton wrote:
September Zeros wrote:
thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?


No I thought the kick outs left a lot to be desired. I just don't think it was solely due to poor game plan and bucks.

I think in part it had something to do with the players trying to execute it.

In essence a combination of factors.


Maybe it's part of an education process

I would personally never let Big Tevez (c Heath Shaw) Lachy Keeffe take a kickout, but Buckley trusts him to do it and says it's part of his development to have that trust.

As you would know, I'm not a Nathan Buckley fan, but I would support you that sometimes with a young team you can only go on faith


Only negative with Keeffe's kick ins is his decision making under pressure, which I think will improve with experience and exposure, and that he tends to kick to where a player is rather than putting it to where the player should be, again something experience will improve. He's technically a very good kick.

Also think Langdon could develop in this area. At a minimum, neither is any worse than Heater, and both have more upside in this area.

Either way, think we have more significant issues than kickins. Getting spanked in clearances and on the spread hurts us much more.


Also you need a number of player to do kick outs
One specialist will not work what if he goes down and no-one else has a clue. Or cannot get back in time so the backline is flooded. Or the opposition work out his tactics.

To kickout effectively requires experience and team mates who know what to do ie experienced players not kids

Plus how does Bucks find out which players are good at kickouts without trying them? How do they get the required experience?

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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:11 am
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Just on Keeffe, we're judging him on what we see, which is a player who has played about 30 games of AFL football. How about we judge him after he's played over 50 games of football? He's a beautiful accurate kick of the football, very poised and allusive. His weakness is lack of awareness, lacking body strength and failure under pressure, all qualities which can be fixed with more preseason conditioning and AFL experience. As above, poor kick-ins didn't lose us games; it was lack of run and losing the contested footy at the stoppages.
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yin-YANG 



Joined: 03 Oct 2011


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:19 am
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I like Keefe taking the kick-outs and I agree with neil that we need more than just one doing the job. Goldy is another I would hope to see do more kick-outs next year - and spend more time down back given his experience etc.

Accuracy certainly helps as does experience etc - but so does having some plans in place for clearing the ball out - for me this is our biggest issue with the kick-outs at Collingwood at Thompsoc has also highlighted! Kick-outs and ball movement require hard running and I think this is what the Hawks do well with their short passing - it demands more running/players presenting but gives a better reward than long kicks often...

I hope we copy the Hawks short kicking game - it has the added benefit of taking momentum away from teams - another area we have struggled in lately. Rather than going back short passes keep a more positive mindset. The skills required are also less to pinpoint a short pass rather than a kick over 30 metres - where slight errors are compounded!

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Geek 

geek


Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:54 pm
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yin-YANG wrote:
I hope we copy the Hawks short kicking game - it has the added benefit of taking momentum away from teams - another area we have struggled in lately. Rather than going back short passes keep a more positive mindset. The skills required are also less to pinpoint a short pass rather than a kick over 30 metres - where slight errors are compounded!


Not for me. Half the league will be trying to copy the Hawks' style. I would prefer us to be focussing on how to beat it.

I remember a year or two ago that everyone was talking Hawthorn's chances down because of that short kicking game not being suitable for finals. I also note that this grand final was all about how Hawthorn smashed Sydney in the physical stakes.

Otherwise, yeah I agree... we do need to make options for the ball carrier and not just 30 metres backwards.
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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:03 pm
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Clarkson is seen to be ahead of the pack when it comes to game plans anyway.

People say he's won 3 flags with 3 different game styles.

As we saw in the grand final Hawthorn outplayed Sydney at there own game first then destroyed them with there own.

Intense tackling pressure and hardness at the ball (and man) goes along way to bringing down even the best sides and makes good sides great.

We saw it in rounds 2 to 7 this season.

Hope we see a hell of a lot more of it next year.

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The_Staunton Virgo



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:02 pm
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jackcass wrote:
The_Staunton wrote:
September Zeros wrote:
thompsoc wrote:
Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?


No I thought the kick outs left a lot to be desired. I just don't think it was solely due to poor game plan and bucks.

I think in part it had something to do with the players trying to execute it.

In essence a combination of factors.


Maybe it's part of an education process

I would personally never let Big Tevez (c Heath Shaw) Lachy Keeffe take a kickout, but Buckley trusts him to do it and says it's part of his development to have that trust.

As you would know, I'm not a Nathan Buckley fan, but I would support you that sometimes with a young team you can only go on faith


Only negative with Keeffe's kick ins is his decision making under pressure, which I think will improve with experience and exposure, and that he tends to kick to where a player is rather than putting it to where the player should be, again something experience will improve. He's technically a very good kick.

Also think Langdon could develop in this area. At a minimum, neither is any worse than Heater, and both have more upside in this area.

Either way, think we have more significant issues than kickins. Getting spanked in clearances and on the spread hurts us much more.


It's a big part of footy for me now though, and especially with us - we can't defend a kick out or score on the rebound when it's our turn. One thing that we could improve is we're often really slow with our kick outs. It's instinctive with Hawthorn - one long kick to someone 40 or 50m out from goal and they are away. With us we'll often hestitate and stand around and our only option is a kick out to someone 10-15m from goal, and then everyone else is manned up.

Not as sure about Keeffe and his skills as you guys are - like the shout on Langdon, might as well try something different.

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:59 am
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Going back to the opening post of this thread questioning the role of Leading Teams, I noticed this club from today's Age "Beams has told the club he dislikes the Leading Teams system". Rightly or wrongly, it's clear that this management system suits some people but not others. I tend to think it gets strong willed individuals off side. Overall it may be good, but it's clear it has caused us some collateral damage.
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John Wren Virgo

"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."


Joined: 15 Jul 2007


PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:29 am
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RudeBoy wrote:
Going back to the opening post of this thread questioning the role of Leading Teams, I noticed this club from today's Age "Beams has told the club he dislikes the Leading Teams system". Rightly or wrongly, it's clear that this management system suits some people but not others. I tend to think it gets strong willed individuals off side. Overall it may be good, but it's clear it has caused us some collateral damage.


if you are introvert i doubt you'd like it at all and i'm sure it would come across as confronting. most of our guys are quite introverted and wouldn't like conflict but there is such a thing as good conflict.

it sounds like the transition to a player driven culture is slowly taking effect. that elliott says he is now very comfortable in the environment speaks for this. i get the feeling that initially communication was very one way traffic and the coaches doing all the talking. there is a great saying i subscribe to that goes along the lines of "if everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking".

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