ISIS
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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What an utter moron Abbott is. Is he really saying that if your child was blown to pieces as "collateral damage", you wouldn't be any more likely to seek radical vengeance than if your child was not blown to pieces?
Abbott is among the lowest types of human psychiatry; like Blair and Howard before him, he's the ultimate fawning, slimy creep bag ever willing to carry out the masters' violent bidding for his own narcissistic glory.
Well, he's not quite the ultimate self-serving sycophant; but he is at least neck-and-neck with E. B. Farnum from Deadwood 
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| pietillidie wrote: |
Edited and expanded. |
G'day, there's a lot in your post above and I've got a stinker of a week at work... i will tackle some of it next weekend, perhaps by Pm since the others on the forum might be getting (past) tired of our jousts on this topic. Hope you're settling into London. You will find plenty here to advance your theories - both those i find stimulating and those I find very strange indeed ... not that these are necessarily exclusive categories - you do have a fine mind, even if I disagree with some of your assumptions.
Cheers Mug. 
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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What's the problem with any of that? At least Labor and Liberal are on the same tune as this, just the Greens who are out of step with reality, not unusually really as Milne makes Abbott look like a Rhodes Scholar. 
FWIW, this is a pretty good idiots guide to the whole mess over there.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/islamic-state-at-a-glance-who-they-are-where-they-came-from-and-what-they-want-20140922-10i42z.html
These clowns are seriously psycho. The path of not aggravating them is dead set stupid and IMHO cowardly.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I agree that they need to be fought, but the questions of how and by whom are still unresolved, as far as I can tell. Australia's role in all of this is pretty tangential, really, and some may well ask why we're choosing to make ourselves a target of people who didn't really care that much about us until a few weeks ago.
From the link you posted:
| Quote: | | These acts helped to provoke the US into war against Islamic State. Some analysts believe it was a deliberate campaign to help unite Muslims worldwide in the cause of Islamic State against the west. |
So, we're effectively doing what they want. Am I the only one who thinks that may not be a good idea?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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http://aussiemadness.com/2014/09/23/men-in-robes-found-having-picnic-near-nuclear-facility/
| Quote: | Nothing to worry about. Go back to sleep!
These five ‘men’ were just having a picnic, making daisy chains and sharpening their beheading knives, right next to Lucas Heights nuclear facility south of Sydney.
Obviously there were no clues as to the religious background of these mysterious ‘men’, who the media will inevitably brand as ‘right-wing extremists':
of Middle Eastern appearance;
wearing long robes;
with long beards but trimmed moustaches (purely coincidental that is just like Muhammad and the way Muslim men are required to wear facial hair); and
praying.
[In fact, the only thing missing was a copy of the Qur'an and repeated shouts of 'Allahu akbar'.]
But apart from that, police have absolutely nothing to go on… and whatever it is, it has nothing to do with Islam.
Tomorrow’s headlines will read that the men claim they were victims of Islamophobia and ‘unfair targeting’, just for having a day out in the countryside.
They had all 809,444 km˛ of New South Wales to choose from for their teddy-bears’ picnic, but just by chance, they happened to choose a location just metres from one of the most highly sensitive Commonwealth facilities in the entire country.
What rotten bad luck! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | I agree that they need to be fought, but the questions of how and by whom are still unresolved, as far as I can tell. Australia's role in all of this is pretty tangential, really, and some may well ask why we're choosing to make ourselves a target of people who didn't really care that much about us until a few weeks ago.
From the link you posted:
| Quote: | | These acts helped to provoke the US into war against Islamic State. Some analysts believe it was a deliberate campaign to help unite Muslims worldwide in the cause of Islamic State against the west. |
So, we're effectively doing what they want. Am I the only one who thinks that may not be a good idea? |
Go back a step further than that. I was listening to trash news Sky today per chance, and I LOL'd because their language clearly showed they didn't know who ISIS is and what their identity entails. You wouldn't donate five bucks over the internet to a save-the-pandas charity with an identity that plainly, obviously disputable and propagandistic, so why the hell would you kill young people, create "collateral damage", and spend billions of dollars on this vague rot?
It's a disgrace. If you grabbed anyone who supports this rubbish they simply couldn't explain to you what the hell they were supporting in a reasonable fashion.
Yes, terrorism is a real and serious risk, but this is just more "conservative" gross negligence, violence and fiscal theft. They get off on the stuff while claiming the exact opposite.
ISIS: The Important Facts You Need to Know
"Word coming out of the Pentagon is that the moon is made of green cheese. The concerns are that if an asteroid were to approach within 9 parsecs of the moon, and the Millennium Falcon can get from the moon to Tatooine in 3 light years with a few tweaks from Chewbacca, then we are at increasing risk from this vile culture."
"Top securities analysts for the national security industry have said we need to spend at least 100 billion dollars containing the green cheese moon, lest its unsavoury culture enters the earth's atmosphere."
"Let's go to Dr. Say Watt at the politically-neutral Science for Jesus Institute in Kentucky."
"Dr. Say Watt, how will we contain the green cheese moon?"
"It's called Tupperware, Jan, and it's a great American product. Have you seen the size of some of the larger containers? No problems in the freezer or microwave. President Obama has got to act to create jobs right here in Yunan County by ordering a super-sized FridgeSmart built for the job."
"Look, Jan. Tupperware has got multi-level forces on the ground already. All we have to do is deploy them to the moon."
"Okay, turning to Washington D.C. for a moment. Warren Hawk, what do you say to those who don't believe the moon is made of green cheese?"
"I mean, c'mon, Jan. Will the green cheese moon need to be wrapped in white cloth before people start realizing it's a bad culture? This stuff is really on the nose. I mean, do we have to serve it up on a platter for people to realise the truth? Let's just cream it and be done with it, I say!"
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | I agree that they need to be fought, but the questions of how and by whom are still unresolved, as far as I can tell. Australia's role in all of this is pretty tangential, really, and some may well ask why we're choosing to make ourselves a target of people who didn't really care that much about us until a few weeks ago.
From the link you posted:
| Quote: | | These acts helped to provoke the US into war against Islamic State. Some analysts believe it was a deliberate campaign to help unite Muslims worldwide in the cause of Islamic State against the west. |
So, we're effectively doing what they want. Am I the only one who thinks that may not be a good idea? |
No, but lets look at the options.
We believe that they deliberately made the videos of beheading US and British citizens to wind up the US and Britain. That is designed to then get them (and us) to retaliate. They can then push their message of the West seeking domination over Islam to get more followers.
A side effect of this stuff is that countries increase security measure, which can lead to some local anti muslim sentiments which can also help their recruiting.
So, we can see what they want. Is the smart option to not play their game and instead sit back and do nothing? Absolutely not, that's the double bluff in this situation. Doing nothing also works in their favour because it lets them do more of this stuff, including here in Australia. The longer we hold off the more they can escalate their behaviour until they force our hand. So the trick is, or should be, all in the marketing.
Yep, we take action, strong and decisive action. We also need to get our messages clear and keep repeating them which, to a degree, has also been done.
Keep repeating that none of this is an attack against Muslims, denounce these scum as not being Islamic but scum terrorists who give all Islam a bad name. Try to make sure that message is clear, concise and repeated constantly. Damage control 101.
Accept that we're trying to protect a country and a lifestyle, while fostering different people and beliefs to exist within it. They are trying to tear that down. The stated end game is a world wide caliphate and they don't care how many people they kill in the process. The also don't care how many of their own people they sacrifice to the goal. These people are fanatics.
So of we do it the way I outlined, which is what I seem to read between the lines we are doing, we're actually giving them exactly what they DON'T want.
ie, we're giving them a contest by using terrorist tactics against them, bombing them from afar and not giving them a physical enemy to strike against.
We're also working hard on the propaganda war to prevent the average aussie from demonising muslims and stop the average muslim from feeling persecuted, minimising the number of converts to their cause.
Once you shelve the idealism most of this is common sense.
Another option I read somewhere would be to get a UN resolution that this ISIL mob were considered so bad that every bit of territory that they conquer is henceforth considered Israeli soil in perpetuity, then sit back and watch the rest of the Islamic world kick the shit out of them.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | The stated end game is a world wide caliphate |
Is this actually true? Perhaps someone who knows more about the situation can correct me, but isn't their end goal to restore the Umayyad Caliphate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate#mediaviewer/File:Umayyad750ADloc.png
A lot of territory, yes, but not exactly the whole world.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Thanks Jezza. Note that this is the ambitious, crazy plan that they have absolutely no hope of achieving. Also note the absence of Australia on this map.
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Acknowledged. Makes sense to me. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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No worries David
One thing to bear in mind though is how credible this five-year plan is and whether ISIS actually wants to achieve this outcome even though it's ridiculously unrealistic and practically impossible to achieve anyway.
The regions that ISIS have captured in Northern Iraq and the North Eastern part of Syria bordering Iraq are regions with sectarian conflicts and tension and therefore they've been able to exploit these tensions that exist in this part of Iraq and Syria. I'd start to become a little concerned if they were able to seize the capital of Baghdad but I don't think they'd have the capabilities or man power to achieve that outcome.
Nevertheless, the Islamic State will be a real problem for the region for quite a while.
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Last edited by Jezza on Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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I have a feeling that the five-year plan I've displayed above your post is the bare minimum they want to achieve even if that outcome is fantasy.
They have so many enemies it's not funny so I doubt they'll be able to seize all of Iraq and Syria let alone the rest of the Middle East and areas of Africa and Europe!
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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