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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Post subject: Keeping secrecy secret |  |
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Australia in particular and Victoria in general has gone completely ape-shit mad on judicial secrecy. The latest absurdity concerns a very serious criminal case of international bribery by a government-owned banking arm which I can't name here. (Don't you name it either, you'd get Nick's into serious trouble. And yourself, of course.)
The case is being kept 100% secret from Victorian and Australian citizens. What's more, the fact that the case is being kept secret is also being kept secret, under threat of very severe penalties. The absurdity of the justification is palpable: the claim is that it must be kept secret for "national security reasons". What they actually mean by that - and they state this outright without apparent embarrassment - is that it would offend the foreign officials who are claimed to have been bribed or are otherwise involved, and thus risk Australian national security.
But get this: the information has already been published freely in those countries themselves and everywhere in the world except Australia. Anyone who could possibly be offended has already been offended. No-one doesn't know all about it ... except for the citizens of Australia. We are the only people being kept out of the loop. What a disgrace.
Remember, good Nicksters: you CANNOT repeat the allegations here, and you CANNOT link to them either and there are very heavy penalties, although ever since Wikileaks broke the story anyone in any country (including this one) can read all about it. Anyone involved or accused already knows all about it.
More here. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/rights-group-and-union-push-for-review-of-australian-wikileaks-gag-order The actual secret thing itself (the stuff newspapers like the Guardian can only print everywhere in the world except Australia) you will have to figure out for yourself where to find. My first guess took me approximately 0.03 seconds. I didn't need a second guess.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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Now where are Tim Wilson, George Brandis and all the other loud supporters of free speech? Oh that's right free speech is for bigots not whistle blowers nor it would appear law enforcement agencies if their findings would embarrass our allies.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Dr Pie wrote: | | Now where are Tim Wilson, George Brandis and all the other loud supporters of free speech? Oh that's right free speech is for bigots not whistle blowers nor it would appear law enforcement agencies if their findings would embarrass our allies. |
Your attitude has been noticed.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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OK, I'll try to walk the line here. Since the alleged issues could have equally have happened under Labor or Liberals watch, can we leave the party politics out of it. I'm interested in the logic behind why the suppression order is such a big issue.
The issue as i understand it involves Australian bureaucrats, officials of the organisation Tannin alluded to (If I'm going under the bus you're coming with me  ) and politicians of other countries that would geographically would be closer to us than the northern hemisphere.
It would seem a potential criminal matter for those from our side and potential for serious embarrassment for the others. Considering the inability to control information published off shore, or even (potentially) if someone from Australia put it up on a website registered overseas (not hosted, registered) is this whole suppression order just a sop to keep others happy while knowing that it will be leaked and people don't actually "need" to know at this stage anyway?
Just thoughts pitter patting around the perimeter.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Since the alleged issues could have equally have happened under Labor or Liberals watch, can we leave the party politics out of it. |
Yep. I'm guessing a bit here, but it's a fair bet that these things were done (or not done) under the Howard regime, possibly also under Rudd, and may or may not have extended into Gillard's time. I doubt that the alleged crimes were still going on (or not going on) by the time Abbott's mob arrived. So I agree, this isn't a party political thing.
| stui magpie wrote: | | officials of the organisation Tannin alluded to (If I'm going under the bus you're coming with me ) |
Nicely put. 
| stui magpie wrote: | | is this whole suppression order just a sop to keep others happy while knowing that it will be leaked and people don't actually "need" to know at this stage anyway? |
So, according to this logic, an entirely pointless sop to foreign nationals who don't read Australian newspapers or watch Australian TV anyway and who have already had the full gory detail published in their own countries and every other country too (except Oz), this entirely pointless sop to some foreigners is more important than freedom of speech in Australia AND more important than the operation of the Australian justice system, which normally relies on free and open publication of charges, evidence and verdicts so that all can see that justice was done and seen to be done.
Hmmm ...
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Are we really surprised such people of those such nations would be open to such a thing?
Such a shame we might have facilitated it.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: |
| stui magpie wrote: | | is this whole suppression order just a sop to keep others happy while knowing that it will be leaked and people don't actually "need" to know at this stage anyway? |
So, according to this logic, an entirely pointless sop to foreign nationals who don't read Australian newspapers or watch Australian TV anyway and who have already had the full gory detail published in their own countries and every other country too (except Oz), this entirely pointless sop to some foreigners is more important than freedom of speech in Australia AND more important than the operation of the Australian justice system, which normally relies on free and open publication of charges, evidence and verdicts so that all can see that justice was done and seen to be done.
Hmmm ... |
not quite. When the suppression order was taken it hadn't been published anywhere (unless I missed something).
So the order was to prevent publication in Australia, by Australian media, which would (potentially) be not taken well by the countries involved. This would have been done in the knowledge that it would, in the shortness of time, become available through other channels.
The relevant countries media hacks would be reading our media for stories. Just because the locals don't, doesn't matter, their media would republish it.
The important point would be, politically, if (when) it got out, we didn't do it. Total deniability.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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So you are saying that it wasn't a serious violation of free speech and the public's right and duty to be informed about the justice system in order to achieve nothing, it was a serious violation of free speech and the public's right and duty to be informed about the justice system in order to achieve not quite nothing.
I repeat: hmmmm....
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I wouldn't say achieve nothing, and the suppression of information should have always been understood to be temporary, which does no harm to the Australian Public need to know.
If some rocket surgeon however thought this was a long term solution that would really result in the info not getting out, they are dead set fkn stupid.
I just don't quite get the freedom of speech issue. Government info is suppressed all the time, released 20 years after the fact. What's the big diff?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Wikileaks is a great service. May it live on forever. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | So you are saying that it wasn't a serious violation of free speech and the public's right and duty to be informed about the justice system in order to achieve nothing, it was a serious violation of free speech and the public's right and duty to be informed about the justice system in order to achieve not quite nothing.
I repeat: hmmmm.... |
Good news knackers, old Bam Bam agrees with you.
| Quote: | ITS the explosive story that the Australian Government doesnt want you to know about but its attempts to shut it down have blown up in its face.
Outgoing Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has called for the Australian government to release details of a corruption case that names current and former leaders of Asian nations.
WikiLeaks defied a Victorian Supreme Court directive earlier this week and published a suppression order over the case, which the whistleblower website called an unprecedented case of censorship.
The case involves allegations that Asian officials and their families were bribed to secure contracts to print their currencies by scandal-plagued banknote manufacturer Securency, which is linked to Australias central bank. |
http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/wikileaks-publication-of-court-suppression-order-draws-ire-of-indonesia-president-susilo-bambang-yudhoyono-towards-australia/story-fn5j66db-1227009915974
[/quote]
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Not many people spell Hmm with 4 Ms. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Wokko wrote: | | Wikileaks is a great service. May it live on forever. |
I agree. Performing a vital service again.
As for the Libs and their supposed commitment to freedom of speech ... what can you say? In this and the ABC affair from last year, they've shown themselves to be quite in favour of censoring anything that they deem not to be in the "national interest". I think someone needs to remind them of exactly what free speech is and why we need it.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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