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Does Australia have a cringeworthy new US fetish?

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sixpoints 



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:33 am
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Skids wrote:
I'm goin' back there soon ... 10-12 weeks away i'm thinking. Haven't been there since 2010, can't wait!

Have a great time Skids.
I too haven't been back since I spent 16weeks there in 2002. So it's been 12 years for me!
So I'm certainly no US expert, only having been for 4 months over a decade ago. By my memory of the trip/adventures is still vivid. Overall, it was a great experience. I mainly hopped between various cities, so I didn't see much of the countryside.
It did cement in my mind that anyone could easily think it's the greatest place on Earth, as the familiar highlights that I saw in places such as; San Francisco, Manhattan, Philly, Baltimore, DC, New Orleans were terrific.
But I'm a bit of an explorer, so without taking too much effort you don't have to wander/catch a train/bus off the beaten track in those cities to see something starkly different.
It hit me mostly in Philly, DC, Baltimore & New Orleans. Get away from the familiar (read beautiful/fascinating/interesting city highlights) and you find suburb after suburb of abject poverty. Ruined houses, abandoned cars, people begging. To an Aussie, it was a bit of a shock.
I somewhat foolishly stayed well south of the Mall area in DC, and to be frank being a cheapskate was a mistake! The place was downright scary! I was very politely robbed by two guys on the way to the subway stop in that area (no way was I arguing). Getting out of there to New Orleans was the same - The Garden District of NO is as beautiful a place as I've seen in any city. Block after block of marvellous Antebellum houses, leafy streets etc. Head across town and again it's shitsville times ten.
I didn't feel safe in some places and I've travelled a fair bit over the years and that's not a feeling I often have. Yes, I did actively seek outoff the beaten track stuff, but that is, for me, a real experience. The warts and all.
So again, I'm no expert at all, I reckon there are at least 43 US states Ive never been to, but my limited observation is; fantastic place to see, exhilarating, crowded, exotic. The great bits are truly great. But good grief their mass poverty and I saw plenty, has no comparison anywhere in
Australia on that scale. There is no way I would ever want to see here the worst of what I saw there.
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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:26 am
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Hoping to go back for the forth time next year. Maybe start in Miami and drive up to niagra falls, or do it the other way and end with another Bahamas cruise!

Have a great trip skids, envious as hell!

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CP 



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:52 am
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CP wrote:
One question for you, pietillidie, what is your experience of the USA, it's custom, people & culture from any of your extended stays there?


still waiting...
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:03 pm
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CP wrote:
CP wrote:
One question for you, pietillidie, what is your experience of the USA, it's custom, people & culture from any of your extended stays there?


still waiting...

That's only a gotcha for people who have no understanding of comparative culture and geography, and don't know the difference between quantitative and qualitative claims. You do understand the difference, right?

What significant known and measured differences between Australia and the US do you have in mind that bear on my criticism of US socio-economic outcomes? And if you don't believe in measuring a political system by its outcomes, there's no discussion to be had.

You certainly can't "personally experience" aggregated metrics such as murder and poverty rates. You might want to talk about your qualitative experience living in certain cities with certain murder and poverty rates, but when you do so you're no longer comparing countries.

Do you know someone who has "experienced" higher national religiosity, extreme poverty and murder in Australia than in the US?

Of course, if you're talking about what it feels like to live in Manhattan, work on Wall Street, run a startup in Silicon Valley, or live in a cabin near Glacier National Park, then I'm ready to learn as I'm keen to experience those things.

Feel free to ask me what it's like to live in Seoul or how to do business within a monocultural, modernising Confucian hierarchy; however, if you want South Korean demographic and socio-economic data, it's all online.

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CP 



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:04 pm
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pietillidie wrote:
CP wrote:
CP wrote:
One question for you, pietillidie, what is your experience of the USA, it's custom, people & culture from any of your extended stays there?


still waiting...

That's only a gotcha for people who have no understanding of comparative culture and geography, and don't know the difference between quantitative and qualitative claims. You do understand the difference, right?

What significant known and measured differences between Australia and the US do you have in mind that bear on my criticism of US socio-economic outcomes? And if you don't believe in measuring a political system by its outcomes, there's no discussion to be had.

You certainly can't "personally experience" aggregated metrics such as murder and poverty rates. You might want to talk about your qualitative experience living in certain cities with certain murder and poverty rates, but when you do so you're no longer comparing countries.

Do you know someone who has "experienced" higher national religiosity, extreme poverty and murder in Australia than in the US?

Of course, if you're talking about what it feels like to live in Manhattan, work on Wall Street, run a startup in Silicon Valley, or live in a cabin near Glacier National Park, then I'm ready to learn as I'm keen to experience those things.

Feel free to ask me what it's like to live in Seoul or how to do business within a monocultural, modernising Confucian hierarchy; however, if you want South Korean demographic and socio-economic data, it's all online.


Thought so.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:10 pm
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CP wrote:
pietillidie wrote:
CP wrote:
CP wrote:
One question for you, pietillidie, what is your experience of the USA, it's custom, people & culture from any of your extended stays there?


still waiting...

That's only a gotcha for people who have no understanding of comparative culture and geography, and don't know the difference between quantitative and qualitative claims. You do understand the difference, right?

What significant known and measured differences between Australia and the US do you have in mind that bear on my criticism of US socio-economic outcomes? And if you don't believe in measuring a political system by its outcomes, there's no discussion to be had.

You certainly can't "personally experience" aggregated metrics such as murder and poverty rates. You might want to talk about your qualitative experience living in certain cities with certain murder and poverty rates, but when you do so you're no longer comparing countries.

Do you know someone who has "experienced" higher national religiosity, extreme poverty and murder in Australia than in the US?

Of course, if you're talking about what it feels like to live in Manhattan, work on Wall Street, run a startup in Silicon Valley, or live in a cabin near Glacier National Park, then I'm ready to learn as I'm keen to experience those things.

Feel free to ask me what it's like to live in Seoul or how to do business within a monocultural, modernising Confucian hierarchy; however, if you want South Korean demographic and socio-economic data, it's all online.


Thought so.

What are you, 12 years old? Did Sarah Palin tell you the good old USofA was the greatest country on earth?

Trips to Disneyland don't cut it, I'm afraid.

And if you can't distinguish between quantitative and qualitative questions, you've got a long way to go before making head or tail of socio-economic systems.

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:57 pm
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:24 pm
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^Yes, CQ should stop—at the NSW border as you've done!

Just because he didn't get shot on his Disneyland holiday doesn't make the US national murder and poverty rate any lower Cool

Oops, back to the OP. It's a query about my experience of Australian culture, not US culture. Rolling Eyes

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:46 pm
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Oh stop sooking.

bugger all in the OP was quantitative, it was all subjective observation based stuf with your own personal biases shining through like a beacon.

With a start like that you have zero argument trying to hold others to quantitative data.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:22 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Oh stop sooking.

bugger all in the OP was quantitative, it was all subjective observation based stuf with your own personal biases shining through like a beacon.

With a start like that you have zero argument trying to hold others to quantitative data.

You've misunderstood the to and fro. Yes, the OP was purely and purposefully qualitative. Agreed! Explicitly so:

pietillidie wrote:
Is it my imagination, or does Australia have a new US fetish? This is not a scientific observation by any means (though there might be some pertinent survey data out there), but I seem to be noticing it everywhere I go.

It was an overtly subjective question and speculation on the Australia I am experiencing as we speak Rolling Eyes

CQ was querying my credentials for holding the national entity known as the US in disregard (probably knowing I have been based in Asia). But my disregard for the US is based on a range of quantitative social metrics which are a comparative disgrace for a wealthy nation (not even considering foreign policy).

So you've got it arse about.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:29 pm
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{shakes head} refer back to picture above.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:31 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
{shakes head} refer back to picture above.

Shakes head at you shaking your head Exclamation Refer back to the facts above.

Anyhow, we could always have a Jameson and move on! I'd even pour CP one, but he gets the dirty glass Wink

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:39 pm
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I agree PTID I heard that celebrate 4th July crap too WTF????

Bit like the way Halloween has insidiously crept it's way into our calendar of things to celebrate - another WTF??

But I wonder if it is just the tentacles of the corporate world of advertising and marketing sucking us in ?

Australia Day was never a chest beating, flags as capes wearing, thongs depicting the flag day until they realised they could cash in and make a buck!

And St Pats day in Ireland is not the St Pats day nonsense of Aus or the USA.

To each their own and seems lots of folk like and enjoy visiting the USA - but for me it is the one country on the planet I have zilch interest in - have never been and will never go - too many other really interesting places ( with good food) to visit!

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:24 pm
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USA USA USA USA USA!
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